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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 11:47 am
(June 13, 2016 at 11:44 am)Rhythm Wrote: (June 12, 2016 at 2:35 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Well, sin isn't a measure of what God wants. God wants the opposite. What we are is the measure of what God wants. Sin makes us less than what we are/what we are capable of being.
Actions which correspond to what-we-are and add to the fullness of what-we-are are good actions.
Well, we are merciless killers just as surely as we're kind hearted philanthropists. Does that "add to the fullness" of what we are? Is that..then, good action?
Well, which one strikes you as a more rational action: merciless killing or kind hearted philanthropy?
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 11:49 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 11:50 am by SofaKingHigh.)
(June 13, 2016 at 11:47 am)Ignorant Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:44 am)Rhythm Wrote: Well, we are merciless killers just as surely as we're kind hearted philanthropists. Does that "add to the fullness" of what we are? Is that..then, good action?
Well, which one strikes you as a more rational action: merciless killing or kind hearted philanthropy?
That totally depends on the situation, take your God for example, the biggest merciless killer in the whole universe if that book's to be believed.
Does that make it irrational, or rational?
You may refer to me as "Oh High One."
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 11:54 am
(June 13, 2016 at 11:49 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:47 am)Ignorant Wrote: Well, which one strikes you as a more rational action: merciless killing or kind hearted philanthropy?
That totally depends on the situation, take your God for example, the biggest merciless killer in the whole universe if that book's to be believed.
Does that make it irrational, or rational?
Regardless of the situation, merciless killing is irrational. I am aware that the Bible speaks in different places about God's association or direct command of killing "without mercy" , and I am aware that this poses a great difficulty for me. I can't make sense of it (because it seems irrational). What can I say?
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 11:55 am
(June 13, 2016 at 11:54 am)Ignorant Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:49 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: That totally depends on the situation, take your God for example, the biggest merciless killer in the whole universe if that book's to be believed.
Does that make it irrational, or rational?
Regardless of the situation, merciless killing is irrational. I am aware that the Bible speaks in different places about God's association or direct command of killing "without mercy" , and I am aware that this poses a great difficulty for me. I can't make sense of it (because it seems irrational). What can I say?
Not much else I guess, at least you're honest.
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 11:56 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 11:59 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 13, 2016 at 11:47 am)Ignorant Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:44 am)Rhythm Wrote: Well, we are merciless killers just as surely as we're kind hearted philanthropists. Does that "add to the fullness" of what we are? Is that..then, good action?
Well, which one strikes you as a more rational action: merciless killing or kind hearted philanthropy?
You just told us that things which add to the fullness of what we are..... -are- good actions. We are merciless killers, merciless killing adds to the fullness of what we are, and so it must be a good action. It hardly matters what I think, rationally. There's nothing rationally objectionable in the statements anyway. One leads inexorably to the other.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 12:00 pm
(June 13, 2016 at 11:56 am)Rhythm Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:47 am)Ignorant Wrote: Well, which one strikes you as a more rational action: merciless killing or kind hearted philanthropy?
You just told us that things which add to the fullness of what we are..... -are- good actions. [1] We are merciless killers, [2] merciless killing adds to the fullness of what we are, [3] and so it must be a good action. It hardly matters what I think, rationally.
1) Yes, that is true.
2) Are you a merciless killer?
3) It simply and obviously does not add to human fulfillment.
Are you prepared to defend merciless killing as a way to human fulfillment?
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 12:09 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 13, 2016 at 12:00 pm)Ignorant Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:56 am)Rhythm Wrote: You just told us that things which add to the fullness of what we are..... -are- good actions. [1] We are merciless killers, [2] merciless killing adds to the fullness of what we are, [3] and so it must be a good action. It hardly matters what I think, rationally.
1) Yes, that is true.
2) Are you a merciless killer?
3) It simply and obviously does not add to human fulfillment.
Are you prepared to defend merciless killing as a way to human fulfillment? Defend the consistent application of your own framework for determining moral imperatives? No thanks.
1) Having agreed with this, and applying your previous framework for determining moral value, how can you avoid the conclusion that it is a good action?
2) You just agreed that we were - as in one line above. Seems like a pointless question to ask.
3) Show your work. When you've done that work, tell me how to decide between whatever that is, and the fullness of what we are - or this new proposition, human fulfillment (because I'll just as easily find a situation where something nasty leads inexorably to human fulfillment). That's really all I'm wondering about.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 12:52 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 1:07 pm by Ignorant.)
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 1:01 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 1:06 pm by Ignorant.)
Deleted, added to post above.
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RE: Being a sinner just for being born
June 13, 2016 at 1:17 pm
You agree, you don't agree. Hard to keep up. It's not offensive, even if it is irritating. 
What -does- add to the "fullness of what we-are"....if acting out what we are doesn't..in every case, such as merciless killing?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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