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Greetings
#51
RE: Greetings
Yeah - there's a tomb of fucking "David" in Jerusalem, too....although it was built in the Middle Ages. Tell you what, dig it up and see what's in there. Then we can talk.

Xtians claim all sorts of holy places because when Constantine's mother went there in the 4th century they duly showed her everything she wanted to see. I guess no junior officer wanted to be the one who told the emperor's mother that the Roman Army had burned the whole country to the ground twice over between her visit and the fictional "jesus."

I repeat. Ramblings from the koran aside or "biographies" ( or shall we call them 'gospels') by later writer are precisely the evidence that xtians have for their boy. Pretty much the same stuff that the jews have for moses or abraham.
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#52
RE: Greetings
(April 23, 2011 at 3:20 pm)ruhollah Wrote:
(April 23, 2011 at 9:07 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: I would dispute your claim to "not being neck deep in debt" should the rest of the planet decide to go to 'alternative means of energy' your country would be beyond neck deep in debt inside a week. Be thankful 'the West is a bit on the lazy side of life'

Yeah maybe in the Arabic nations, cause they were living under tyranny and didn't invest in eduction/research.

As for my country, you should be thankful that 90% of all important technologies we use in our daily life was invented there.

Hell even woman's right was invented there.

And most of these inventions were developed after this religion was implemented in the country.

In fact many of the earlier western scientists would read journals written by scholars in the middle east. Newton (who by the way was very religious and believed in ONE god) got a lot of his ideas from Alhazen.

Empires rise and fall, right now we are living at a time where the western empire is in control. 500 years from now, who knows, people in the middle east will say the same thing.

So which country is this you are talking about??

"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#53
RE: Greetings
(April 23, 2011 at 3:20 pm)ruhollah Wrote: You prove me that there is NO god whatsoever. That the fact that the universe is following the laws of physics to a tee is all just a coincidence. The fact that pi, e, golden ratio is constant throughout the universe is all just a coincidence.

So prove to me that there is NO god.

The burden of proof is on you not me. You're the one who's claiming the existence of god, you prove it. I'm simply questioning it. I don't believe in god because nothing points to a god.
All I'm asking is how do you know it's a god that sparked it all off? Can you prove your claims? Prove to me there is a god.

Can you prove there is no Santa Claus? I'd love to see you try.Tongue
It's not easy to prove something does not exist when it does not exist. You are doing it all backwards anyway. We don't start with the assumption that everything exists till dis-proven, we start with - we don't know till we have evidence to say it exists. That's how science works. You're starting with an assumption, and when someone points out that there is no evidence, you attack and ask for them to disprove it. Why don't you back up your claims?

The burden is not on us. We're not claiming anything. You are.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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#54
RE: Greetings
(April 24, 2011 at 5:55 am)Ace Otana Wrote: The burden of proof is on you not me. You're the one who's claiming the existence of god, you prove it. I'm simply questioning it. I don't believe in god because nothing points to a god.
All I'm asking is how do you know it's a god that sparked it all off? Can you prove your claims? Prove to me there is a god.

Can you prove there is no Santa Claus? I'd love to see you try.Tongue
It's not easy to prove something does not exist when it does not exist. You are doing it all backwards anyway. We don't start with the assumption that everything exists till dis-proven, we start with - we don't know till we have evidence to say it exists. That's how science works. You're starting with an assumption, and when someone points out that there is no evidence, you attack and ask for them to disprove it. Why don't you back up your claims?

The burden is not on us. We're not claiming anything. You are.

Listen I believe in it.....I don't understand why I have to prove it to you, I proved it to myself and I'm in a positive state.

As a recommendation, go to a physics graduating class in a nearby university. You'll find that majority of them will believe in something, because that's the only way they can comprehend all the beauty in this universe.

I worked with quants before, most of them physics grads and they all believe in God.

If method of infinite descent (which is an acceptable means of proving a conjecture) isn't going to convince you, then I don't know what well.
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#55
RE: Greetings
(April 24, 2011 at 6:19 am)ruhollah Wrote:
(April 24, 2011 at 5:55 am)Ace Otana Wrote: The burden of proof is on you not me. You're the one who's claiming the existence of god, you prove it. I'm simply questioning it. I don't believe in god because nothing points to a god.
All I'm asking is how do you know it's a god that sparked it all off? Can you prove your claims? Prove to me there is a god.

Can you prove there is no Santa Claus? I'd love to see you try.Tongue
It's not easy to prove something does not exist when it does not exist. You are doing it all backwards anyway. We don't start with the assumption that everything exists till dis-proven, we start with - we don't know till we have evidence to say it exists. That's how science works. You're starting with an assumption, and when someone points out that there is no evidence, you attack and ask for them to disprove it. Why don't you back up your claims?

The burden is not on us. We're not claiming anything. You are.

Listen I believe in it.....I don't understand why I have to prove it to you, I proved it to myself and I'm in a positive state.

As a recommendation, go to a physics graduating class in a nearby university. You'll find that majority of them will believe in something, because that's the only way they can comprehend all the beauty in this universe.

I worked with quants before, most of them physics grads and they all believe in God.

If method of infinite descent (which is an acceptable means of proving a conjecture) isn't going to convince you, then I don't know what well.

Sorry Ru...the majority on this site ARE PhD graduates in more than just Physics... this is why they are giving you a hard time.

No dear NOTHING will convince them that YOUR BELIEF is the ONLY one that they should adhere to ... ask nurse to check your meds sweetpea
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#56
RE: Greetings

Quote:Listen I believe in it.....I don't understand why I have to prove it to you
Because when you claim something, it is expected that you support it with something. Evidence perhaps.
I won't just assume it's true because you say so.
Quote:You'll find that majority of them will believe in something, because that's the only way they can comprehend all the beauty in this universe.
It doesn't matter who or how many believe it. It doesn't make it any more true. A lie is a lie, even if everyone believed it.
Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the universe is beautiful to us, but in reality, it is a really deadly place for beings like us. I don't need a belief in god to see the beauty of the cosmos.
Quote:I worked with quants before, most of them physics grads and they all believe in God.
I doubt that, but if that was true, it makes no difference. Numbers count for nothing. It doesn't matter how many believe in a god, if it's false, it's false.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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#57
RE: Greetings
(April 24, 2011 at 6:32 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Because when you claim something, it is expected that you support it with something. Evidence perhaps.
I won't just assume it's true because you say so.

It doesn't matter who or how many believe it. It doesn't make it any more true. A lie is a lie, even if everyone believed it.
Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the universe is beautiful to us, but in reality, it is a really deadly place for beings like us. I don't need a belief in god to see the beauty of the cosmos.

I doubt that, but if that was true, it makes no difference. Numbers count for nothing. It doesn't matter how many believe in a god, if it's false, it's false.

I'll just give an analogy,

1000s of years ago there were a group of scientists who claimed that the earth was not flat and was not the center of the universe, it was in fact just another planet rotating around the sun in an orderly fashion.

It wasn't until 1900s this was verified mathematically and 1950s was verified visually with satellites..

Same thing, if you are lucky you can wait until the second coming of Jesus or when another prophecy of this religion comes true in order to accept God...

until then, stay safe in these uncertain and godless times....


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#58
RE: Greetings

Quote:1000s of years ago there were a group of scientists who claimed that the earth was not flat and was not the center of the universe, it was in fact just another planet rotating around the sun in an orderly fashion.
If you look carefully, they didn't just assume this. It was after long observation that they concluded that the earth was just one of many.
Unlike them, you are assuming without anything as evidence.
Evolution was once just an idea, it became more than that once evidence really started to pile on. Now, it's acknowledged globally as a scientific fact.
God, is nothing but an assumption. We need evidence and reason for it to be anything more than that.
Observing the stars and claiming that there's a god are two very different things. One is based on early observation, the other nothing but claims, baseless assumptions.

It's not scientific to just assume it's true. It doesn't work that way.
Quote:Same thing, if you are lucky you can wait until the second coming of Jesus or when another prophecy of this religion comes true in order to accept God...
What if he never turns up? What if it was false from the start? We've got nothing to verify it with. I with-hold judgement until I see some kind of evidence. I won't just assume it's true or just take your word for it.

Quote:until then, stay safe in these uncertain and godless times....
I plan too. Big Grin
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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#59
RE: Greetings
(April 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: If you look carefully, they didn't just assume this. It was after long observation that they concluded that the earth was just one of many.
Unlike them, you are assuming without anything as evidence.
Evolution was once just an idea, it became more than that once evidence really started to pile on. Now, it's acknowledged globally as a scientific fact.
God, is nothing but an assumption. We need evidence and reason for it to be anything more than that.
Observing the stars and claiming that there's a god are two very different things. One is based on early observation, the other nothing but claims, baseless assumptions.

well big bang theory is a start... ie. our universe was derived from a single point

evolution is a start... ie. all living creatures originated from a single cell which originated from water

theory of black holes.... how they absorb nearby planets/comets/...etc. and rolls them up so easily like a carpet... exactly what is mentioned in the quran

these are all just a start...

I'm sure centuries from now there will be more evidence... OR the second coming of Jesus will occur OR one of the many revelations in this religion comes true
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#60
RE: Greetings
(April 24, 2011 at 6:36 pm)ruhollah Wrote: I'll just give an analogy,

1000s of years ago there were a group of scientists who claimed that the earth was not flat and was not the center of the universe, it was in fact just another planet rotating around the sun in an orderly fashion.

It wasn't until 1900s this was verified mathematically and 1950s was verified visually with satellites..

Same thing, if you are lucky you can wait until the second coming of Jesus or when another prophecy of this religion comes true in order to accept God...

until then, stay safe in these uncertain and godless times....

Bloody hell! where did you learn your science history????

The diameter of the earth was calculated in 240bce by Earatosthenes of Alexandria, but even before then it was widely considered to be a sphere.

BTW Earatosthenes calculations relied on the Sun being a long way away so that its rays were almost parallel. And the result pretty damned accurate too.
[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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