I'd think modern USA christers would be equally relieved and embarrassed to have a commandment that specifically allows scripture cherry picking.


And of course, pointing out there is currently no such commandment isn't going to deter a single one of them from doing it.

(June 21, 2016 at 1:25 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I'd think modern USA christers would be equally relieved and embarrassed to have a commandment that specifically allows scripture cherry picking.


And of course, pointing out there is currently  no such commandment isn't going to deter a single one of them from doing it.

Don't be ungenerous, vorlon. They cherry pick because of -- what's that learned word? -- exejesus . . . exegenesis . . . exegesis . . . something like that. Remember, it's not intellectually dishonest if there's some sort of Greek-based word for it. They're scholars! Just ask them.

(June 21, 2016 at 12:16 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Except I'm brunette.

Judging by those roots, so is she.

Touche!

(June 21, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(June 21, 2016 at 1:25 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I'd think modern USA christers would be equally relieved and embarrassed to have a commandment that specifically allows scripture cherry picking.


And of course, pointing out there is currently  no such commandment isn't going to deter a single one of them from doing it.

Don't be ungenerous, vorlon. They cherry pick because of -- what's that learned word? -- exejesus . . . exegenesis . . . exegesis . . . something like that. Remember, it's not intellectually dishonest if there's some sort of Greek-based word for it. They're scholars! Just ask them.

The word you're looking for is 'arrogance'.

If God's Holy, Inerrant and Literal truth can be treated like a buffet, then the ones picking and choosing clearly know better than God as to what is and isn't important.

(June 19, 2016 at 7:16 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: "I can improve upon the morality of the Bible simply by copying it word for word and then reversing its position on slavery."
-Matt Dillahunty

The morality in the Bible is bat shit crazy and that's no secret.  Let's try to come up with a good list of 10 Commandments on our own that we can present to Christians and allow them to compare it to their own 10 Commandments.

When you respond, please try to do two things:

1.) Present your own set of 10 Commandments,

and

2.) See if you can find problems or loopholes in the 10 Commandments proposed by others.

This way, at the end, we can have a very refined, robust list.  Christians say stupid things but it will take a very special kind of stupid, even for them, to reject this list or say it's inferior to the classical 10 Commandments handed down through Moses.

And please, no "bonus" eleventh Commandment.  I know there's a lot to cover, so just cover the priorities.

For your convenience, you can use this template:

Code:

[b]I[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]II[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]III[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]IV[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]V[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]VI[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]VII[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]VIII[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]IX[/b]
Thou shalt not

[b]X[/b]
Thou shalt not

I'll start off with my list:

I
Thou shalt not harm thy fellow human being except in self-defense or when under orders.

II
Thou shalt not harm the beasts of the earth except in self-defense or to make use of their flesh.

III
Thou shalt not cause unnecessary suffering when harming any living creature.

IV
Thou shalt not own thy fellow human being as property.

V
Thou shalt not rape.

VI
Thou shalt not kidnap.

VII
Thou shalt not steal.

VIII
Thou shalt not indoctrinate thy little ones.

IX
Thou shalt not persecute or promote a human being based on race or sexuality.

X
Thou shalt not observe evil and do nothing.

Hey Nihilist, You know, you could shorten your list a bit and sum all those up with the exception of 2. and 3.  It could read something like, Love your neighbor as yourself.  Im sure nobody would notice it isn't original   Just being silly, If I may ask though, Why in your commandment 1 is it permissible to harm other people when under orders? Personally, I couldn't follow a commandment like that. If I find an order immoral I will not comply.  And if I may add a commandment to the conversation myself, I would have it read,  Any politician who declares war should be compelled to fight in said war.  We would live in a different world if that were the case.

(June 21, 2016 at 9:12 pm)Disciple Wrote: Hey Nihilist, You know, you could shorten your list a bit and sum all those up with the exception of 2. and 3.  It could read something like, Love your neighbor as yourself.  Im sure nobody would notice it isn't original   Just being silly, If I may ask though, Why in your commandment 1 is it permissible to harm other people when under orders? Personally, I couldn't follow a commandment like that. If I find an order immoral I will not comply.  And if I may add a commandment to the conversation myself, I would have it read,  Any politician who declares war should be compelled to fight in said war.  We would live in a different world if that were the case.

You wouldn't harm other people if you were ordered to? Can you possibly have lurked on these forums and be unaware of how your deity, Jehovah, ordered genocide after genocide with the occasional mass murdering wherein the virgins of a village would be spared so they could be taken as war booty?

(June 21, 2016 at 9:12 pm)Disciple Wrote: If I find an order immoral I will not comply. 

Even if it came from God?

Great post idea, but I have to take issue with your first commandment where you say that it is OK to harm your fellow human being "when under orders." This would morally absolve many of the Nazi exterminators and other war criminals from being morally accountable for their actions. The 'just following orders' defense is a reason for causing harm to others, but it is not an excuse - if you are a conscious agent you are morally accountable. 

Case in point - where God tells Abraham to 'sacrifice' (IE Murder) his son. This does not mean that Abraham is not morally accountable for his action. If he were alive today he might argue that the voice in his head told him kill his son, but we would still send him to prison and probably to psychiatric institute for his actions, and rightly so.

---

(June 22, 2016 at 12:00 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(June 21, 2016 at 9:12 pm)Disciple Wrote: If I find an order immoral I will not comply. 

Even if it came from God?

That would be 'divine command theory' where everything God commands is morally correct by default, which falls apart when you realize he could say "Go torture some kittens" or "Go drown your children in the bathtub" like he did to that women in the US recently  - at least that was the reason she gave for murdering her four children. 

This system is a-moral - it is devoid of morality, because it has no consideration for the wellbeing or suffering of conscious creatures, which is practically the definition of psychopathology.

(June 22, 2016 at 1:16 pm)Veritas_Vincit Wrote: Great post idea, but I have to take issue with your first commandment where you say that it is OK to harm your fellow human being "when under orders." This would morally absolve many of the Nazi exterminators and other war criminals from being morally accountable for their actions. The 'just following orders' defense is a reason for causing harm to others, but it is not an excuse - if you are a conscious agent you are morally accountable. 

Case in point - where God tells Abraham to 'sacrifice' (IE Murder) his son. This does not mean that Abraham is not morally accountable for his action. If he were alive today he might argue that the voice in his head told him kill his son, but we would still send him to prison and probably to psychiatric institute for his actions, and rightly so.

---

(June 22, 2016 at 12:00 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Even if it came from God?

That would be 'divine command theory' where everything God commands is morally correct by default, which falls apart when you realize he could say "Go torture some kittens" or "Go drown your children in the bathtub" like he did to that women in the US recently  - at least that was the reason she gave for murdering her four children. 

This system is a-moral - it is devoid of morality, because it has no consideration for the wellbeing or suffering of conscious creatures, which is practically the definition of psychopathology.

Well if you disagree with a commandment then offer an improvement, right?

We need a commandment regarding the offering of a reach around while working over someone with a strap-on.