I've never understood islamaphobia based upon fears of sharia law in the here and now..or even based on bombings.  The truly sinister bit about islam (or any religion) isn't expressed in a singularly violent outburst, or in how an exile/refugee community self organizes.  If you're gonna be scared about a religion...there are much scarier things to reference.  I suppose fear isn't entirely rational, though, so meh.

@ The bitching from christards about islam. How many queers have good christian boys™ killed, beaten to death with their hands and kicked to a pulp with their feet? Tell me that's less worrisome, less violent, than a bomb or a semi-auto? One wonders.

(June 30, 2016 at 9:37 am)Rhythm Wrote: I've never understood islamaphobia based upon fears of sharia law in the here and now.

Yeah, I often wonder how stupid or ignorant one has to be to think that 1 to 5 percent of any given population take over and install their laws. Apart from the fact that from these 1 to 5 percent, not even a majority is in favor of Sharia law.

(June 30, 2016 at 9:59 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 30, 2016 at 9:37 am)Rhythm Wrote: I've never understood islamaphobia based upon fears of sharia law in the here and now.

Yeah, I often wonder how stupid or ignorant one has to be to think that 1 to 5 percent of any given population take over and install their laws. Apart from the fact that from these 1 to 5 percent, not even a majority is in favor of Sharia law.

The same kind of fear mongering that led us into wars where we were apparently fighting against communism or the like. As if that's the kind of thing that's best solved with the military industrial complex.

Drich Wrote:

Quote:

Quote:THERE IS A CENTRALIZED AUTHORITY!!! And despite what an individual says his personal views are there is a active and standing command to murder all Homosexuals under the laws of their god. Watch the Video in the OP This command to murder gays comes from their centralized authority!!!

Does this 'central authority' have a name? Sunni High Command? How do they keep sects like the Ahmadis or Ismailis from forming? No, wait, they can't do a damn thing about it because they don't exist. Any Imam can preach his own interpretation of Islam.
That's why there's Universal Sufism, Quranism (ditch the hadiths), Imams who support separation of government and religion, Islamic Modernism; and groups like Muslims for Progressive Values and the Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity. Because of the absolute control of the Central Authority of Islam.

Drich Wrote:

Brian37 Wrote:Christianity is a religion of peace too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF8uN9En2dQ&app=desktop

again moron, christianity is splintered which means the followers of this pastor are limited.

Islam is not.. The man who called for the murder of gays in this area speaks for billions, as 90% of that religion are united under him and men like him all over the world!!! His interpretations are LAW for Billions of muslims as Islam is not splintered as Christianity is splintered!

That pastor may be speaking to a couple of hundred people world wide verse this Imam who has the ear of billions...
how many more times do I need to say this before you guys incorporate this into your thinking? With this video you are comparing the fringes of Christianity to MAINSTREAM ISLAM!!!

Let me put it another way:

Now what is more likly to happen? the man speaking to billions reaching just the right person in just the right place to carry out a successful terror attack? or the guy speaking to 30 people most of whom are related in someway (like the west borough baptists? who has more power? what group present the greatest danger, simply by sheer numbers of potential possibilities?

Except the 90% of Sunnis are far from united or monolithic. So there's that. Did you know that most Sunni-majority countries don't have the death penalty for homosexuality? What could possibly be the explanation for this deviation from Sunni High Command?

(June 30, 2016 at 9:27 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Veritas_Vincit Wrote:This is the symptom of the 'regressive liberal' concept of Islamophobia - the ingenious conflation of Racism and Religious Criticism. If anyone tries to criticize Islam they are automatically branded a racist xenophobic bigot, and shouted down without anyone having to actually confront their legitimate critique of this overtly homophobic religion. Islamophobia is a racist term! It affirms the notion that Islam is basically about Arabian and Pakistani people - they make it about race. Islam is NOT a race, it's a religion followed by people of all 'racial' types.

Donald Trump is winning because of this - the "You're just a racist!" Islamophobia knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of Islam means that anyone who is genuinely concerned about it feels like nobody cares, and like they are being condescended to, and the only people who talk about their concerns and take them seriously are far-right extremists and genuine bigots like Donald Trump.

Yet Donald Trump is not actually winning.

For a more balanced analysis of Islamophobia (hint, if you're concerned that one percent of our population is going to impose Sharia law in the USA any year now, you're an Islamophobe):

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Islamophobi...lamophobia

If critics of  Islam want to say the violence is real, sure. If they also want to claim it is religious based, I can agree with that too. But yea, only a fucking idiot thinks 1 billion people out of 7 billion total will take over the entire planet. The danger into buying into that paranoia is the same bullshit they fall for, and that is what can lead to global war. But if we can accept that there is no more room for any one group to expand, and this is the only rock all 7 billion humans have, no the violence wont completely go away, but we can at least avoid a worldwide global disaster in a global nuclear war.

I really hate it when westerners, including some atheists, falsely accuse me of coddling Quran justified violence. Nobody should condone that. But I do warn those in the west that scapegoating in the process of rightful criticism and blasphemy is simply not the solution to reduce religious violence.

It is simply not wise to take your eyes off of any religion, regardless of which volcano is more active. I think far too many in the west take secular law for granted. It still remains that the west became more civil in spite of Christianity, not because of it. All three religions of Abraham have holy books that depict the rival tribalism of the times in which they were respectively written. It is ok to go after bad ideas and bad claims, but to forget the origins of the social norms depicted in all three, is dangerous.

There never was such a thing as a "chosen people". That is literally the root cause of the divisions between the three. I think the more humans face that instead of dodging it, you still wont have a perfect utopia, but you can increase better conflict management.

(June 29, 2016 at 10:24 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 29, 2016 at 9:36 am)Brian37 Wrote: Knock it off asshole. Nobody is saying we should be "afraid" of criticizing Islam. You've been here long enough to see atheists go after the claims that both Mystic and Atlas make here. 

What we are saying is you don't get a pass either. You keep failing to taking into account TIME and geography and secular law in the west.

Your holy book is just as chalk full of justifications for religious tribalism, sexism, bigotry, homophobia and violence. The west simply has had a longer time of individuals ignoring those violent stories in favor of common law.

Christianity did not make the west civil, our species evolutionary empathy allowed more people to ignore that comic book tribalism.

If you are not afraid to criticize Islam, then where is the criticism? I show you a news report from this area where it clearly explains a local Mosque invited a Imam to call for the deaths of homosexuals 3 weeks before this thing happened..

Again, would your current nonchalant attitude towards a religious leader be the same if he were a bishop from the RC church and the shooter a roman Catholic?

And I showed you CHRISTIANS calling for the death of gays.

Look asshole, nobody is disagreeing that the Quran is used to justify harm to others. What we are saying though is that you ignorantly don't want to face that ALL holy books are used as weapons to justify harm to others. Now instead of stupidly claiming we are singling you out, which none of us are, try understanding that.

YES the Quran justifies killing gays, and apostates such as other minority Muslims or non Muslims or those who leave Islam. We DO agree the words are there, nobody is in denial, or should deny that.

That still does not give you an excuse to ignore that the bible is ALSO used as a weapon, and the only reason that the west is less violent now in this point in history is because our western secular governments won't put up with the prior barbarity Christianity once reflected. But the words are still there, and the videos of CHRISTIANS calling for the deaths of gays are there. Now, stop ignoring that. Nobody is out to get you personally for pointing that out to you.

Do not rightfully point out the holy book justified transgressions of other's religions and stupidly ignore your own. Every religion is guilty of this. Nobody is treating you differently or unfairly. You have been on this website for YEARS. You have no excuse to falsely play victim here anymore than Atlas or Mystic do.

(June 28, 2016 at 9:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 8:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You actually think that people should be lashed for having sex Mystic?  Why not everywhere?  Why shouldn't others do the same, elsewhere?

I don't think such laws should exist without the admonishment from God and his words being made most high in society. That is, without that foundation,  it cannot be forced to a society and it will backfire. With the foundation there, it should exist.

I also think perhaps (not sure about this), laws like this should only be implemented under the rule of an infallible guide by God who is sinless or else, it will seem corrupt if you have people who are not sinless on top of society.

There is division on that, and I'm not sure, I haven't reflected and reasoned between both sides of the issue on it.  But no I don't think non-Muslims should implement this law anymore then banning alcohol. It will backfire, without, the word of God being made most high.

The fact that such laws are beneficial for society but in dire need of words from God (and even can be argued an infallible ruler and guide from God) point to the need of revelation for society from God.

There are some rules that no matter what secular punishment you put, are not going to be followed, without a foundation of society being rooted on revelation from God and leaders he appoints.

That was a pile of incoherent drivel.  I suppose it sounded better in your head?

That you would think those laws are justified indicates your level of ignorance and bigotry.

Your beliefs are disgusting.

(June 29, 2016 at 10:34 am)Rhythm Wrote: -as if bishops and popes had never called for the death of this or that....and as though it would be difficult to find criticism of that...here on atheist forums.

Get ahold of yourself.

Now, for the rest of us, with love in our hearts, shall we join hands and sing the chorus of "Fuck The Motherfucking Pope", by brother Minchin?

(feel better now Drich?)

Has this happened in the last 100 years? 200? So when your ready to compare apples to apples feel free to rejoin the conversation.

(June 30, 2016 at 12:54 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 29, 2016 at 10:34 am)Rhythm Wrote: -as if bishops and popes had never called for the death of this or that....and as though it would be difficult to find criticism of that...here on atheist forums.

Get ahold of yourself.

Now, for the rest of us, with love in our hearts, shall we join hands and sing the chorus of "Fuck The Motherfucking Pope", by brother Minchin?

(feel better now Drich?)

Has this happened in the last 100 years? 200? So when your ready to compare apples to apples feel free to rejoin the conversation.

It's happened in the last month following Orlando. There were far-right Christians coming out the woodwoork all over the place to praise the attack. The day after Orlando, a white boy (presumably a Christian) was caught heading towards L.A Gay Pride with explosives and guns planning to blow it up.

Homosexuality has only become legalised in most Western countries within the last 60 years too. This has not happened because of The West's benign Christian religion, it's happened through secularism at the expense of Christian extremism (which is as barbaric, violent and abusive as Islamic fundamentalism). It's not that there are no longer Priests, Bishops and even candidates for The Papacy that believe homosexuality should be punishable by death, it's that they're not allowed to air those views in the 21st Century without an educated, rational, secular society charging them with hate speech. When the Muslim world eventually wakes up and does the same to their Imams and Islamic "scholars", their situation with human rights is going to improve too.