(July 16, 2016 at 12:15 am)Lek Wrote:

(July 15, 2016 at 11:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Are you so sure about that?  Maybe they are just being punished for being poor and black?

Or are you okay with that?

You know the answer to that Mini.  I'm talking about convicted criminals paying rent for their cells and you're changing the subject.

Oh, so you have such faith in our criminal justice system that any one who is convicted deserves to be tormented forever, huh?

You had best brush up on what our wonderful "public defender" system means.  Clearly you have no clue.

(July 15, 2016 at 9:21 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 24, 2015 at 6:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Somehow I'm not surprised that people are being charged for being put in a cage.

Great idea!  Criminals should absolutely be charged for their room and board if they have the income.  Why should the taxpayers pay for it?  In fact, we should make pay them the rent for the law-abiding citizens who they hurt.

I did not mean that I support such a thing. We all know the American justice system is fucked up, and this seems a little too close to slave labor. I don't think we should be making money off of criminals, because it incentivizes people in power to hold more criminals for longer periods of time, regardless of what they've done. This also goes along with my belief that we should be rehabilitating people. Not punishing them. Most people that do fucked up shit are fucked in the head, and spending time in a cage doing forced labor isn't helping their mental problems.

(July 16, 2016 at 12:17 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 15, 2016 at 10:52 pm)Lek Wrote: They are being punished for a crime, say, murder or rape.  So we shouldn't charge them rent because we are forcing them to live in a cell?

Right.  Whats difficult to grasp there...we're considering charging them for what we want, and what we force them to do.  I think that you might be a bit peeved if it were you.  I don;t have to like what they;ve done in order to realize that whats being done -to- them is not for their benefit or for any choice they've made...but for mine.

I'm willing to pay for what I want.

So let me get this straight.  You are forcing people to murder and rape, and it is not their choice to do so?  We shouldn't make them pay rent because they didn't choose to be there?

(July 16, 2016 at 9:46 am)Chad32 Wrote:

(July 15, 2016 at 9:21 pm)Lek Wrote: Great idea!  Criminals should absolutely be charged for their room and board if they have the income.  Why should the taxpayers pay for it?  In fact, we should make pay them the rent for the law-abiding citizens who they hurt.

I did not mean that I support such a thing. We all know the American justice system is fucked up, and this seems a little too close to slave labor. I don't think we should be making money off of criminals, because it incentivizes people in power to hold more criminals for longer periods of time, regardless of what they've done. This also goes along with my belief that we should be rehabilitating people. Not punishing them. Most people that do fucked up shit are fucked in the head, and spending time in a cage doing forced labor isn't helping their mental problems.

I agree that rehabilitation should be the ultimate goal of imprisonment, but I don't agree that most criminals are that way because they have mental problems which force them to commit crimes.  Most of them are just people who wanted to commit the crime because of hate, passion, a desire for personal gain or whatever.  If they are guilty and have the money they should pay for their own upkeep.  If they are determined to have a mental illness that factored into the situation, then they should be treated accordingly.  No.  I don't think the system always works fairly nor does any human institution.  I do think that we have one of the best possible systems.  No system, no matter how well designed, will work well unless the people running the system are morally upright.  You can try to design or fix the system all you want, but if you have crooked people running it, the system will fail.  When it comes down to it, the best way to change an institution is to work to change the minds and hearts of those who participate in it.  In this case it's the people who run the system and those who willfully commit the crimes for which they are being prosecuted and punished.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/white...n-40635591

Hopefully he will get convicted.

manowar

(July 16, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 16, 2016 at 12:17 am)Rhythm Wrote: Right.  Whats difficult to grasp there...we're considering charging them for what we want, and what we force them to do.  I think that you might be a bit peeved if it were you.  I don;t have to like what they;ve done in order to realize that whats being done -to- them is not for their benefit or for any choice they've made...but for mine.

I'm willing to pay for what I want.

So let me get this straight.  You are forcing people to murder and rape, and it is not their choice to do so?  We shouldn't make them pay rent because they didn't choose to be there?

Are you a disingenuous twat or a babbling imbecile?  You've ruled everything else out trying to "get it straight".  We desire to see these people segregated from the rest of us.  We have good reason to desire this.  It's still our desire, we're the instigators and the beneficiaries.  WTF is the problem?  If you want an armed person to apprehend another human being, put them in a cage, and keep them there...for your benefit, you're going to have to foot the bill.

Don;t get me wrong..there's a part of me that's just tickled pink at the idea of making a person pay for the incarceration I thrust upon them...for whatever reason I might have chosen to incarcerate them, I just have the presence of mind required to realize that this part of me shouldn't be allowed within 100yards of a position of authority. We do it, with casual regularity, but it takes a special kind of asshole to argue that it's right. We do it because prison is expensive and we're cheap, and we know that no one gives a shit about prisoners. / shrugs

I'll pick "babbling imbecile" for that one.

I prefer the other...because honestly, if folks are even half as dumb as they pretend to be, we're just re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic.

(July 16, 2016 at 2:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 16, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Lek Wrote: So let me get this straight.  You are forcing people to murder and rape, and it is not their choice to do so?  We shouldn't make them pay rent because they didn't choose to be there?

Are you a disingenuous twat or a babbling imbecile?  You've ruled everything else out trying to "get it straight".  We desire to see these people segregated from the rest of us.  We have good reason to desire this.  It's still our desire, we're the instigators and the beneficiaries.  WTF is the problem?  If you want an armed person to apprehend another human being, put them in a cage, and keep them there....you're going to have to foot the bill.

Don;t get me wrong..there's a part of me that's just tickled pink at the idea of making a person pay for the incarceration I thrust upon them...for whatever reason I might have chosen to incarcerate them, I just have the presence of mind required to realize that this part of me shouldn't be allowed within 100yards of a position of authority.  We do it, with casual regularity, but it takes a special kind of asshole to argue that it's right.  We do it because prison is expensive and we're cheap, and we know that no one gives a shit about prisoners.  / shrugs

What is your alternative to putting criminals in prison or jail?

Why do I need an alternative?  My wallet is open. I'm not exactly pleased with the for profit body farms we call jails.....but that's the only game in town.