(July 22, 2016 at 2:19 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: If you look at the number of deaths, there are just so many larger problems that we could proportionally be using our resources to fight.

You are right to point out the economic cost and diverted resources of a "War on Terror." At the same time, death by terrorism is not the only metric. There are serious problems with making accommodations to Islamic cultures in the name of religious tolerance like recognizing parallel legal systems (sharia courts), prosecuting critics of Islam as hate-speech (Mark Steyn), the self-censorship by politically correct media (Danish cartoons). To my mind, its all part of the same problem.

(July 22, 2016 at 3:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 22, 2016 at 2:19 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: If you look at the number of deaths, there are just so many larger problems that we could proportionally be using our resources to fight.

You are right to point out the economic cost and diverted resources of a "War on Terror." At the same time, death by terrorism is not the only metric. There are serious problems with making accommodations to Islamic cultures in the name of religious tolerance like recognizing parallel legal systems (sharia courts), prosecuting critics of Islam as hate-speech (Mark Steyn), the self-censorship by politically correct media (Danish cartoons). To my mind, its all part of the same problem.

I'm actually in agreement with you on most of that, especially the Danish cartoons - the actions of the US State Department were shameful in regards to this.  But do you have examples of parallel legal systems actually being established?  I've heard that some Muslims in western countries have asked for it, but I hadn't heard anything about a state actually acknowledging sharia courts.

(July 22, 2016 at 3:26 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(July 22, 2016 at 3:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You are right to point out the economic cost and diverted resources of a "War on Terror." At the same time, death by terrorism is not the only metric. There are serious problems with making accommodations to Islamic cultures in the name of religious tolerance like recognizing parallel legal systems (sharia courts), prosecuting critics of Islam as hate-speech (Mark Steyn), the self-censorship by politically correct media (Danish cartoons). To my mind, its all part of the same problem.

I'm actually in agreement with you on most of that, especially the Danish cartoons - the actions of the US State Department were shameful in regards to this.  But do you have examples of parallel legal systems actually being established?  I've heard that some Muslims in western countries have asked for it, but I hadn't heard anything about a state actually acknowledging sharia courts.

Maybe 'recognizing' was a bit of an overstatement. From what I gather, authorities in London look the other way in some Islamic ghettos where self-policing is apparently the norm. I suppose I should have said 'tacitly allow'. On a positive note, a group of radicals in Irving, Texas tried to start up a sharia court. Fortunately it was shut down, but not without Muslims crying Islamophobia.

I failed to mention the 5,700 illegal clitorectomies performed in England during the last year. There are also countless 'random' stabbings in Europe that apparently do not count as terrorism. Just like the 18 German train riders attacked with an ax by some guy shouting allu akbar. Apparently not considered a terrorist attack. Also in Germany a Sikh temple was bombed. Also not considered a terrorist attack. Now it comes out the the Nice trucker may have had accomplices. No shit Sherlock!

(July 22, 2016 at 4:00 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 22, 2016 at 3:26 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I'm actually in agreement with you on most of that, especially the Danish cartoons - the actions of the US State Department were shameful in regards to this.  But do you have examples of parallel legal systems actually being established?  I've heard that some Muslims in western countries have asked for it, but I hadn't heard anything about a state actually acknowledging sharia courts.

Maybe 'recognizing' was a bit of an overstatement. From what I gather, authorities in London look the other way in some Islamic ghettos where self-policing is apparently the norm. I suppose I should have said 'tacitly allow'. On a positive note, a group of radicals in Irving, Texas tried to start up a sharia court. Fortunately it was shut down, but not without Muslims crying Islamophobia.

I failed to mention the 5,700 illegal clitorectomies performed in England during the last year. There are also countless 'random' stabbings in Europe that apparently do not count as terrorism. Just like the 18 German train riders attacked with an ax by some guy shouting allu akbar. Apparently not considered a terrorist attack. Also in Germany a Sikh temple was bombed. Also not considered a terrorist attack. Now it comes out the the Nice trucker may have had accomplices. No shit Sherlock!

Interesting, thanks for providing some stats.

(July 22, 2016 at 3:12 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: A large number of people actually believe these things and they're going to try and destroy civilization no matter how much you bend over backwards to accomodate their impossible beliefs and demands. The idea itself is also extremely contagious to boot. All the more reason to fight it at a more abstract level.

Have any suggestions? I'm kinda at a loss on this one. Not that anyone listens to you, me or MysticKnight. It doesn't help that blowhards like Hannity are cherry-picking problem texts from the Koran and talking about sharia like its a well-defined legal code.

I'm not afraid of terrorism in Australia.
I'm irrationally afraid of it anywhere overseas.
My ex is taking my daughter to Thailand in a few months and I'm just scared something will go wrong.
I've never been one to not be afraid of something because statistics told me so.
I'm always more scared of being eaten by a shark than driving to the beach.
Or driving to the airport than flying.
It's basically the idea that I am more capable than others and the lack of control in certain situations.

Not particularly worried about terrorists. They can all go fuck themselves. They wanted to fuck 72 virgins, so they might as well start with each other. As for domestic terrorists, well they're not a huge problem right now either.

(July 22, 2016 at 3:26 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I've heard that some Muslims in western countries have asked for it, but I hadn't heard anything about a state actually acknowledging sharia courts.

What? Where have you heard something as bullshitty as that? One to three percent of any given population asking for their laws to be established? You can't really believe this to be true, I trust.

(July 22, 2016 at 6:33 pm)abaris Wrote:

(July 22, 2016 at 3:26 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I've heard that some Muslims in western countries have asked for it, but I hadn't heard anything about a state actually acknowledging sharia courts.

What? Where have you heard something as bullshitty as that? One to three percent of any given population asking for their laws to be established? You can't really believe this to be true, I trust.

They ask for it to be implemented for their populations.

There's going to be more extreme Muslims who want it to apply to everyone.

Last time we had this convo when I mentioned these things you just kept repeating it was a fart in a hurricane and would never happen and purposefully missing the point.

The point is that they do ask and want it to happen, and yes it is totally believable, it's their religion and they want to follow the laws described in their religion.

This doesn't mean they all ask for this, Islam is a huge cult with lots of off shoots, there's homosexual Muslims.

It would be more unbelievable to think that no Muslims ask for sharia courts.

Also I repeat again I'm not saying that they are going to make it happen.
I'm saying some do ask for sharia courts rather than European or American laws.

There's a difference there.

No, terrorists don't terrify or frighten me. I will not hide or cower just because some political or religious thugs believe I should.

Edit to add: I lived in London in the early-mid 90s when the IRA regularly set off bombs in public places, killing regular citizens. I was in the West End when I heard a massive bomb explode in The City a few miles away - I heard on the news the next day that it was the largest bomb to explode on mainland Britain since WWII.
Still not scared.