(May 5, 2011 at 8:21 pm)Interzone Wrote:

(April 28, 2011 at 11:03 am)Zen Badger Wrote: The fact is, we have evolved as omnivores and we require meat as well as vegetables.

They seem to have this idea that in nature animals live in some sort of happy co-existance where no really gets hurt.

One suspects they've watched "Bambi" one too many times.

It's an ethical choice, simple as that. Noone's denying that we're omnivores and that there's a great deal of cruelty in the wild, but that argument simply isn't comparing like with like.

We are animals, after all, and I personally think that we have a moral obligation to minimize the suffering done to our fellow creatures, no matter how lowly they are. As long as they suffer, I think it's wrong to turn a blind eye. I'm sure a philosopher like Shelly Kagan can be more eloquent about it, but it's a simple and fair ethical stance. Comparing it to a religion is rather insulting, especially when coherent arguments can be made by both sides, and I fucking hate it when people think veganism for moral reasons is some form of "extremism."

It is very much like a religion, as there is no grounds to ban eating meat, but that is what PETA wants to do. PETA wants to force veganism on all school children. PETA wants to force restaurants to follow PETA rules. PETA wants to jail people for eating meat, and charge meat producers with murder. PETA wants to ban animal testing for scientific advancements.

The last PETA member I met face to face watched me feed a live mouse to my friends snake. She cried and wished the snake was a vegetarian..thats how MENTAL these people have become. Its no longer a philosophy. Its a religion. Vegetarians have to take all of these extra suplements to make up for their loss for eating meat... because of their religious beliefs.

Bacon is good. Chicken is good. Steak is good. And just because you are too much of a wus to butcher your own meat doesnt mean that I am the bad guy either.

In fact a month ago I had the taste for Rabbit. Drove up to a guy that had a "rabbits for sale" sign. Told him I wanted to eat it, so he allowed me to kill my own rabbit on the spot. Broke the fuckers neck. Skinned him up and took him straight home and right into the fry vat. I put some hot wings sauce on him. It was excellent.

Feel free to die off if you want. Me? Im omnivorous and proud. Top of the food chain.

I'll keep being awesome while you seek out your support groups.

(May 5, 2011 at 8:21 pm)Interzone Wrote:

(April 28, 2011 at 11:03 am)Zen Badger Wrote: The fact is, we have evolved as omnivores and we require meat as well as vegetables.

They seem to have this idea that in nature animals live in some sort of happy co-existance where no really gets hurt.

One suspects they've watched "Bambi" one too many times.

It's an ethical choice, simple as that. Noone's denying that we're omnivores and that there's a great deal of cruelty in the wild, but that argument simply isn't comparing like with like.

We are animals, after all, and I personally think that we have a moral obligation to minimize the suffering done to our fellow creatures, no matter how lowly they are. As long as they suffer, I think it's wrong to turn a blind eye. I'm sure a philosopher like Shelly Kagan can be more eloquent about it, but it's a simple and fair ethical stance. Comparing it to a religion is rather insulting, especially when coherent arguments can be made by both sides, and I fucking hate it when people think veganism for moral reasons is some form of "extremism."

Good post.

btw, that avatar is crazy.

Good on ya rev, you just carry on with the delusion that eating meat make you awesome. What it does make you is a slave to your desires.

Wife swap - a VEGAN woman goes into a normal persons house and throws away all of the good food.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T_obaO46Bo
Bacon is good for me

"She's actin' like she's the queen...and we're the sorry people! ಠ_ಠ"

LOL..that kid cracks me up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUEpmbdZLw

bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon - were bringing back the bacon in a big way

How about that Christmas Krunk?

He cracks me up too with just how serious he is about it..."I'm gonna tell you somethin'...bacon is good for me!"

(May 6, 2011 at 12:03 am)Watson Wrote: He cracks me up too with just how serious he is about it..."I'm gonna tell you somethin'...bacon is good for me!"

Its good for your waist line.

Quote:Good post.

btw, that avatar is crazy.

Good on ya rev, you just carry on with the delusion that eating meat make you awesome. What it does make you is a slave to your desires.

Well, I tried.

Quote:It is very much like a religion, as there is no grounds to ban eating meat, but that is what PETA wants to do. PETA wants to force veganism on all school children. PETA wants to force restaurants to follow PETA rules. PETA wants to jail people for eating meat, and charge meat producers with murder. PETA wants to ban animal testing for scientific advancements.

Your argument sounds incredibly similar to those of Christian nutbags who try to associate Hitler with atheism. Do you associate all vegans with PETA? But then, you're only being half-serious, methinks.

Quote:In fact a month ago I had the taste for Rabbit. Drove up to a guy that had a "rabbits for sale" sign. Told him I wanted to eat it, so he allowed me to kill my own rabbit on the spot. Broke the fuckers neck. Skinned him up and took him straight home and right into the fry vat. I put some hot wings sauce on him. It was excellent.

Good. I'm sure you'll enjoy this lovely piece.

Peter Singer wrote a good article a while back

Quote:http://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/200410--.htm

Very good piece, if anyone actually bothers to read it.


"According to the dominant Western tradition, the natural world exists for the benefit of human beings. God gave human beings dominion over the natural world, and God does not care how we treat it. Human beings are the only morally important members of this world. Nature itself is of no intrinsic value, and the destruction of plants and animals cannot be sinful, unless it leads us to harm human beings."

"It is significant that, at least in the West, all the most philosophically important advocates for animals-Plutarch, Montaigne, Hume, Bentham, John Stuart Mill, Henry Salt, George Bernard Shaw-have been skeptical about religion. Even in recent times, leaders of the animal movement-the late Henry Spira and Ingrid Newkirk (and if it were not too immodest, I would include myself)-have tended to be nonreligious. The organizations that have done the most for animals have been independent of religion. There are exceptions, but-in contrast to many other social issues, like racism, poverty, and peace-no one could claim that religious organizations have been especially prominent in the modern movement to free animals from the misery and suffering that humans inflict upon them."

"as humanists, we should scorn a religion that honors a man like Paul, who -- along with his prejudices against women and homoesxuals -- could ask "Doth God care for oxen?" as if it were obvious that the answer must be negative. Paul's question led Christians to disregard those passages in the Hebrew scriptures that did suggest some compassion for animals. {this view dominated thinking} right up to the middle of the nineteenth century, when Pope Pius IX refused to allow a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals to be established in Rome on the grounds that to permit it would imply the false belief that humans have duties toward animals."

Simply clarifying my position, I am not against people eating meat. But it is a fact that the corporate meat industry is both inhumane and wasteful, not only of animals but of resources in general, so it would be mindful of people not to buy from mega-farms (such as Butterball and Tyson). That's about as much "evangelizing" I do.

A lot of secular humanists hold similar positions to mine, and so do a lot of environmental activists (naturally). Derrick Jensen, Kim Stanley Robinson, Daniel Quinn, among others. Now, if you want to paint a broad brush and call us "religious," it's your prerogative, but I hope you can appreciate the irony in that.

I did. I wondered idly what farms would do with excess stock...

I was more outraged by the sheer inefficiency at these operations. Seriously guys, can't you actually kill the calfs on first blow? Fact that you spattered brain matter implies force is not an issue. I suspect that those who were involved with the brain spattering blow may have decided to use less force in order to avoid a mess - that was in error.

Another complete blundering I observed was in killing that calf on the ground - he seriously let off his foot too early, prolonging the death of the creature. Killing it fast allows for one to move onto other things, as well as addressing concerns over cruel infliction of pain.

Utterly wasteful and careless.