Something else about Bin Laden: An interview on TV last night (not a commercial station) with "a former jihadist" who allegedly knew Bin Laden. He claimed that Bin Laden had no operational involvement because he 'lacked the skills" (too thick) He was the public face and religious leader of Al Qaeda, their propagandist.

I still want to see some actual evidence of any crime(s) committed by Osama Bin Laden. Trial by media fueled popular opinion scares the crap out of me.

Once again, I have to ask the Truthers, why frame Al Qaida or Bin Laden?

If it was an inside job, I'd expect that Bush would have "found" marching orders to the hijackers from Saddam. In a false-flag operation, you frame the people you want to attack.

(May 8, 2011 at 10:30 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Once again, I have to ask the Truthers, why frame Al Qaida or Bin Laden?

If it was an inside job, I'd expect that Bush would have "found" marching orders to the hijackers from Saddam. In a false-flag operation, you frame the people you want to attack.

I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, nor was it my intention to imply any such thing.

Asking for evidence is not suggesting anything,it is asking for evidence.

Nor am suggesting there isn't any evidence,(acceptable in a US court) only that I haven't seen any yet.I concede I may well have missed the evidence.To be blunt,not being an American, I pretty much stopped thinking about 9/11, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden some years ago,except fleetingly when mentioned on the news here.

I have never subscribed to what I see as the hysteria about Al Qaeda, Muslim terrorists (IE terrorists who are aslo Muslim) and the threat of Islamisation to world civilisation

(May 8, 2011 at 6:56 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: No matter how much I dispised Bush, I would not accuse him of masterminding something like this.

He doesn't really have to be smart or strategic to mastermind something like this. The CIA and his Pentagon psy-ops would do all the planning as he orders them to do this and that.

(May 8, 2011 at 6:56 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Rayaan..you just lost a LOT of respect from me with this thread.

Sometimes I gain it, and sometimes I lose it, but ultimately respect is not as important to me than to freely discuss in this forum (regardless of whether you will agree or not).

(May 8, 2011 at 7:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Bush COULDN'T mastermind anything.

Or maybe you don't know him too well. He might be stupid in certain things, but this doesn't mean he's not good at keeping secrets.

(May 8, 2011 at 10:30 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: In a false-flag operation, you frame the people you want to attack.

And I think that's exactly what the US did. Bush pinned it on Osama so that he could obtain a greater access to the oil and gas reserves by going to Afghanistan (see this), and then, when the US had a good grip on Afghanistan, Bush diverted his attention to Iraq by using forged documents to show that Iraq had a great deal of uranium ore and also "weapons of mass destruction," which were never found (see this). More reasons to think that this was a false-flag operation: Lie of the Century

(May 8, 2011 at 11:50 pm)padraic Wrote: I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, nor was it my intention to imply any such thing.

Sorry, I wasn't speaking of your post. Whether or not Bin Laden had anything to do with operational planning or whether he was just a poster boy for the operation is something I don't know. I was speaking of those who would suggest that 9/11 was "staged" or an "inside job".

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Quote:And I think that's exactly what the US did. Bush pinned it on Osama so that he could obtain a greater access to the oil and gas reserves by going to Afghanistan

That Bush used the 9/11 attacks to push both domestic and international agendas, I'm sure of. I'm sure many in Bush's circle were cynical enough to see opportunity in the attacks. I also agree they lied us into a war in Iraq for the resources Iraq had.

Where I disagree is that Bush wanted a war with Afghanistan. After 9/11 happened, Bush's orders to Gen. Clark was to find evidence that Saddam did it. He only went to war in Afghanistan because he had to. We went in with the minimum force needed, toppled the government and called it a day. Both inside testimony and events suggest that Bush had no interest in Bin Laden except as something to scare the American people with. Any profiteering in Afghanistan was once again, cynical opportunism. "While we're here..."

(May 9, 2011 at 8:08 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Where I disagree is that Bush wanted a war with Afghanistan. After 9/11 happened, Bush's orders to Gen. Clark was to find evidence that Saddam did it. He only went to war in Afghanistan because he had to. We went in with the minimum force needed, toppled the government and called it a day. Both inside testimony and events suggest that Bush had no interest in Bin Laden except as something to scare the American people with. Any profiteering in Afghanistan was once again, cynical opportunism. "While we're here..."

I would say that Bush did want a war with Afghanistan ... even before the September attacks.

US Planned Attack on Taleban
The Afghanistan War was Planned Months Before the 9/11 Attacks

And just when the US planned to attack another country, a "terrorist" attack occurs on September 11 (coincidence?), to fool the Americans into support for an invasion.

It wouldnt surprise me if the americans had a plan to attack the uk, just in case.

Rayaan Wrote:Or maybe you don't know him too well. He might be stupid in certain things, but this doesn't mean he's not good at keeping secrets.

And yet you are so one sided with this. How about Bin Laden having his hand in much more than you think. How about so many of the afghan citizens being beheaded during the half time of games in afghanistan? How many did OBL command beheaded himself?

If I was to think anyone to be mischevious in their thoughts, I would go more with OBL than our system. Our system has checks and balances, OBL did not. Our system has free press. OBL didnt have to worry about that.

Not to mention you are going pure conspiracy theory, and as a rule of thumb I poo poo any conspiracy theory as soon as I hear it.

You want to convince me? Show me some REAL evidence...

..not videos of kids who share the same conspiracy theories as you.

until then you have my ire.

(May 9, 2011 at 1:35 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: It wouldnt surprise me if the americans had a plan to attack the uk, just in case.

We'll teach you guys for serving warm beer!

(May 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: And yet you are so one sided with this. How about Bin Laden having his hand in much more than you think.

I honestly think it's quite improbable that Bin Laden, a single man in a different country, would be able to pull off such an attack. Much easier for the US government to do it to itself.

(May 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: How about so many of the afghan citizens being beheaded during the half time of games in afghanistan? How many did OBL command beheaded himself?

I don't know, because I didn't find any sources to prove that OBL beheaded Afghan citizens.

(May 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: If I was to think anyone to be mischevious in their thoughts, I would go more with OBL than our system. Our system has checks and balances, OBL did not. Our system has free press. OBL didnt have to worry about that.

Yes, your system is great in many ways. At the same time, I think it is also smart enough to deceive you behind the curtain.

(May 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Not to mention you are going pure conspiracy theory, and as a rule of thumb I poo poo any conspiracy theory as soon as I hear it.

I'm not the only one who believe in this conspiracy theory. According to poll, about one-third of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job of the government.

(May 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: You want to convince me? Show me some REAL evidence...

9/11 Coincidences (7/19): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9BofDUXv0
Bush caught lying about 9/11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZBmfRBv-Go
Bush stumbles when asked about having prior knowledge of 911: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_SDGb-TJcU
Total proof that bombs were implanted in the buildings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw