Category 1: Minds
 
I exist and I am a mind. Therefore, Minds exist.
 
Category 2: Matter
 
I have feelings. These feelings originate from sensors in what I call my body. The sensors are receptive to stimulation from events created from within my body and from events created from outside my body. The stuff that bring about these events I shall categorise as matter. Thus my body is also made of matter. Therefore, Matter exists.
 
Category 3: Space
 
My body needs space and matter in general needs space. Matter can exist only in space. Therefore, space must exist.
 
Category 4: Time
 
My body needs time to change and matter in general needs time for change. Matter can change only in time. Therefore, time must exist.
 
From the above observation I conclude that these 4 categories permeate each other and exist equally with none more abstract or less abstract than another.
 
Now to the question of the origin of these categories
 
Could it be that any one or more of these categories can be made from any one or more of the remaining categories? Could these categories transform from one to another?
 
Matter needs space and time for its existence, therefore without space and time matter will not exist as such matter could not have been the origin of space and time.
 
From physics it has been observed that space and time can give rise to matter spontaneously. As such matter maybe a result of a localized change to space and time.
 
So then could space and time be the origin of everything else?
 
Again from the theory of the Big Bang all space, time and matter originated from this singular event. Therefore, space and time could not alone have brought about the other categories.
 
Since the big bang was an event, could it be that all things are made from events?
Where there is space, time and matter there is always an event.
There can be no space, time or matter without events.
In an instant all of space and the matter is nothing more or nothing less than a set of events. So then space, time and matter is one and the same as a set of simultaneous events from one instant to the next.
 
From this observation the 4 categories can be reduced to 2 categories
 
Category 1 : Minds
 
Category 2 : Events
 
definition of event as given in Wiki

Quote:The basic elements of spacetime are events. In any given spacetime, an event is a unique position at a unique time. Because events are spacetime points, an example of an event in classical relativistic physics is (x,y,z,t), the location of an elementary (point-like) particle at a particular time. A spacetime itself can be viewed as the union of all events in the same way that a line is the union of all of its points, formally organized into a manifold, a space which can be described at small scales using coordinate systems.

 
 
Now then can minds exist without events. We know that simultaneous events give rise to feeling in minds. We know from special relativity simultaneous events cannot give rise to anything physical or material. Therefore, feelings cannot be physical or material. Now as feelings are a part of minds we must conclude minds are not physical.
 
Now can the mind exist without feelings OR does feelings create the mind, that is one and the same as the mind?
 
If feeling create the mind then as feelings are created by events then space, time and matter which we have concluded is the same as events, must also have feeling and thus be one and the same as a mind.
 
Thus we would need to conclude a rock has a mind or is part of a mind to the same extent that my brain is a mind or is part of a mind.
 
This conclusion is not palatable as such let’s consider the OTHER alternative
 
Now if a mind can exist without feeling then we also know that the mind can create events. (e.g throw a rock, move a finger)
 
So then given that the mind can create events then the big bang (The Event) could have originated from The Mind in order to evoke feelings in other minds.

The theory of the Big Bang is a really good theory that explains a lot of things we observe about this particular universe. But we don't know if this is the only universe, and whether or not the Big Bang was triggered by some other natural mechanism or entity, and if so, what its nature is like.

Most atheists I know don't argue/assert that the Big Bang singularity is the start of everything that exists.

Not even an introduction thread?

Why should I care about any of this?

If there was no time or space before the big bang then saying something caused it is meaningless because it was literally the first thing that could possibly happen making a creator god impossible.
But there is another possibility and that is that there was something prior to the big bang probably quantum foam that went through a period of rapid inflation, that being the case then there is no need for a creator in inflation theory.
I find it interesting that in all the creator god myths it never says how the being did it, it is just always assumed that just saying it did it is enough.
I for one find it unsatisfactory.

Minds, matter, space and time exists.

Okay... what's your point?

Hole Shit! The pope needs to hear this. Have you scheduled an audience?

(August 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm)fdesilva Wrote: Now then can minds exist without events. We know that simultaneous events give rise to feeling in minds. We know from special relativity simultaneous events cannot give rise to anything physical or material. Therefore, feelings cannot be physical or material. Now as feelings are a part of minds we must conclude minds are not physical.

Simultaneous events give rise to feelings?  What does that even mean?  I think you're developing a word salad.  Feelings are caused by physical and mental events.  In space, physical things can cause reactions in other physical things.  Therefore it's possible that feelings are caused by other physical things, and therefore mental events may be physical events.

(August 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm)fdesilva Wrote: Now can the mind exist without feelings OR does feelings create the mind, that is one and the same as the mind?
 
If feeling create the mind then as feelings are created by events then space, time and matter which we have concluded is the same as events, must also have feeling and thus be one and the same as a mind.

If feelings create the mind?  What if physical events cause the mind? Then physical events and mind must be one and the same?  This is nothing but baseless speculation.  Feelings do not create the mind, feelings are part of the mind.  Being part of the mind, their substance does not dictate the substance of mind.

(August 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm)fdesilva Wrote: Thus we would need to conclude a rock has a mind or is part of a mind to the same extent that my brain is a mind or is part of a mind.

I don't see where this comes from.  Is English your first language?

(August 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm)fdesilva Wrote: Now if a mind can exist without feeling then we also know that the mind can create events. (e.g throw a rock, move a finger)

This needs no explanation if the mind is physical.  We've already noted that physical causes can give rise to physical effects.  

(August 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm)fdesilva Wrote: So then given that the mind can create events then the big bang (The Event) could have originated from The Mind in order to evoke feelings in other minds.

The mind can create some events.  That doesn't imply that mind can create any event.  Again, if the mind is physical, the events caused must be physical, not 'magic'.

I feel like a lot of dumbfuckery could be cured with a course in formal logic.

(August 14, 2016 at 1:19 pm)fdesilva Wrote: We know that simultaneous events give rise to feeling in minds. We know from special relativity simultaneous events cannot give rise to anything physical or material. Therefore, feelings cannot be physical or material. Now as feelings are a part of minds we must conclude minds are not physical.

Lol, wut?

Is that you, Deepak?