(August 14, 2016 at 11:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 14, 2016 at 11:21 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: My model begins exactly the same as the Big Bang Theory, with one single difference: The singularity is omni-centric (the center is everywhere) and infinite (occupying all space forever in all directions). This is actually consistent with the logic of the BBT singularity but inconsistent with ALL MEDIA REPRESENTATION, and this distinction is critical. We have been shone a finite singularity, in a black nothing space that is not supposed to exist.  The only valid point of perspective is inside the singularity.

Follow so far?

Yes, I follow.  That's consistent with relativity and standard big bang cosmology.  Please continue.

Excellent, I'll refer to that infinite singularity as the Infinite Unified State (or substance), the IUS. All material and forces are as one, occupying all space forever as a field of matter in equilibrium.

But before we unfold the infinite universes from this IUS, I'd like to point out that this is not a new scientific idea (prima materia) nor a new theological idea (Vishnu, the preserver is described having a body that is an infinite ocean, God in the bible described as an all consuming fire), nor a new philosophical idea as embodied by the "Chaos" of the Greeks.

The IUS is inherently "formless" as the is no external membrane or space beyond to define a form. Pure Being.

The question now is not "how do we get something from nothing" but "how do we get a 'nothing' vacuum space and ordered atomic creation in the midst of all this overwhelming "substantiveness"?

(August 14, 2016 at 11:41 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 14, 2016 at 11:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Yes, I follow.  That's consistent with relativity and standard big bang cosmology.  Please continue.

Excellent, I'll refer to that infinite singularity as the Infinite Unified State (or substance), the IUS. All material and forces are as one, occupying all space forever as a field of matter in equilibrium.

But before we unfold the infinite universes from this IUS, I'd like to point out that this is not a new scientific idea (prima materia) nor a new theological idea (Vishnu, the preserver is described having a body that is an infinite ocean, God in the bible described as an all consuming fire), nor a new philosophical idea as embodied by the "Chaos" of the Greeks.

The IUS is inherently "formless" as the is no external membrane or space beyond to define a form. Pure Being.

The question now is not "how do we get something from nothing" but "how do we get a 'nothing' vacuum space and ordered atomic creation in the midst of all this overwhelming "substantiveness"?

The classical answer is the expansion of space-time. What is your answer?

(August 14, 2016 at 10:58 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 14, 2016 at 10:53 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Well what is your criteria for the evidence that deer exist?

The deer is self evident, God is not.

Like you can't see the earths magnetic field, but you can detect it's influence on a compass.

I don't see any reason for God to be more similar to a magnetic field then a deer. Seems sort of like making stuff up to me. Also a magnetic field, although it can't be seen, can be measured. It's especially strange considering that you told me that I should have a higher threshold for believing in God. My threshold is the same as my threshold for believing in a deer.

(August 14, 2016 at 11:46 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 14, 2016 at 11:41 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Excellent, I'll refer to that infinite singularity as the Infinite Unified State (or substance), the IUS. All material and forces are as one, occupying all space forever as a field of matter in equilibrium.

But before we unfold the infinite universes from this IUS, I'd like to point out that this is not a new scientific idea (prima materia) nor a new theological idea (Vishnu, the preserver is described having a body that is an infinite ocean, God in the bible described as an all consuming fire), nor a new philosophical idea as embodied by the "Chaos" of the Greeks.

The IUS is inherently "formless" as the is no external membrane or space beyond to define a form. Pure Being.

The question now is not "how do we get something from nothing" but "how do we get a 'nothing' vacuum space and ordered atomic creation in the midst of all this overwhelming "substantiveness"?

The classical answer is the expansion of space-time.  What is your answer?

My theological answer is a "self expression" by the extant God but the scientific answer "quantum fluctuation" works just as well. But neither fully answers "how"?

My answer comes from quantizing the infinite spacial relationships the IUS has with it's own substance, into finite representation. This is not word salad, this is the discrete meaning of "quantum": the minimum single action or measurement of an infinite.

The substance of the IUS exists in 3 equal relationships: All around itself equally in all directions, at the center of itself everywhere and as a field in tension equilibrium. This quantizes into a sphere, a point of real substance (not a place holder point) in the center of the sphere, and a tetrahedron (minimum geometric tensor of 3d space) between them.

If a God being expressed itself, those are the only spatial relationships to be expressed..... if the IUS just up and one day quantum fluctuated, those are the only spacial relationships to be expressed.

Follow so far?

I follow the fact since you had to mention it was not word salad automatically makes me doubly assume it is exactly word salad.

(August 14, 2016 at 11:54 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(August 14, 2016 at 10:58 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: The deer is self evident, God is not.

Like you can't see the earths magnetic field, but you can detect it's influence on a compass.

I don't see any reason for God to be more similar to a magnetic field then a deer. Seems sort of like making stuff up to me. Also a magnetic field, although it can't be seen, can be measured. It's especially strange considering that you told me that I should have a higher threshold for believing in God. My threshold is the same as my threshold for believing in a deer.

The earths mag field is omnipresent, within you and all around you, spread throughout the earth though men see it not.

The deer is over there...in the one spot. Okay several cubic feet of "spot".

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(August 15, 2016 at 12:13 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I follow the fact since you had to mention it was not word salad automatically makes me doubly assume it is exactly word salad.

Because the word "quantum" is highly abused by psuedo-scientists and I was warned several times about salading. You are free to look up the definition of "quantum" and check for yourself.

(August 15, 2016 at 12:17 am)Arkilogue Wrote: The earths mag field is omnipresent, within you and all around you, spread throughout the earth though men see it not.

The deer is over there...in the one spot.  Okay several cubic feet of "spot".

Now I see your retarded game.

It is the same retarded analogy involving the wind.

"Oh, god must exist because just like him the wind is also not visible to the eye."

Well, guess, what. Try to use reason instead of creating retarded fucking arguments that can be shot down so easily.

We can clearly see the effects of the invisible wind on the world around us, especially when that wind stirs the trees.

When you can provide us with something of more substance, instead of retarded apologetic arguments, then we can have a serious discussion.

(August 15, 2016 at 12:21 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(August 15, 2016 at 12:17 am)Arkilogue Wrote: The earths mag field is omnipresent, within you and all around you, spread throughout the earth though men see it not.

The deer is over there...in the one spot.  Okay several cubic feet of "spot".

Now I see your retarded game.

It is the same retarded analogy involving the wind.

"Oh, god must exist because just like him the wind is also not visible to the eye."

Well, guess, what.  Try to use reason instead of creating retarded fucking arguments that can be shot down so easily.

We can clearly see the effects of the invisible wind on the world around us, especially when that wind stirs the trees.

When you can provide us with something of more substance, instead of retarded apologetic arguments, then we can have a serious discussion.

Thankfully, through modern science and it's refined instruments, I can point to you the footprint of God in the structure of the atom which has been invisible up until recently.

(August 15, 2016 at 12:17 am)Arkilogue Wrote: Because the word "quantum" is highly abused by psuedo-scientists and I was warned several times about salading. You are free to look up the definition of "quantum" and check for yourself.

And you are free to look it up, as well. I just did.

(August 15, 2016 at 12:23 am)Arkilogue Wrote: Thankfully, through modern science and it's refined instruments, I can point to you the footprint of God in the structure of the atom.

Oh, please, do that. With such a find, surely you shall be awarded a Nobel.