(August 21, 2016 at 12:56 am)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 21, 2016 at 12:53 am)ScienceAf Wrote: Yeah, 4D is just another movement through time. How can we define going "fowards" in time when we have only observed one form.

It's easiest to observe in a tree that is growing outwards in all directions, that is it's singular "forwards" directional motion of growth through time. It does not reverse directions.

Just like the earth does not reverse directions in orbit.

Time has specific trajectory.

Well thought, informal.

(August 21, 2016 at 1:00 am)ScienceAf Wrote:

(August 21, 2016 at 12:56 am)Arkilogue Wrote: It's easiest to observe in a tree that is growing outwards in all directions, that is it's singular "forwards" directional motion of growth through time. It does not reverse directions.

Just like the earth does not reverse directions in orbit.

Time has specific trajectory.

Well thought, informal.

And this: http://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-j...ime-travel

Physicists have confirmed the existence of a new form of atomic nuclei, and the fact that it’s not symmetrical challenges the fundamental theories of physics that explain our Universe.

"We've found these nuclei literally point towards a direction in space. This relates to a direction in time, proving there's a well-defined direction in time and we will always travel from past to present," Marcus Scheck from the University of the West of Scotland told Kenneth MacDonald at BBC News.

(August 20, 2016 at 8:29 pm)fdesilva Wrote: Consider the following
P1. The universe is a 4Dimensional object (1D of time 3D of space)
P2. The universe is expanding.
c1 The expansion of the universe means that its 4 Dimensional shape is flexible.
c2 True Free will is possible by changing the shape of a part of the universe. In doing so you change not only the future but also the past.

If you imagine all the particles of the universe at this instance then their state will determine the next. This is the determinism. Here is what changing the shape would mean. Imagine the particles at a given instance. Now if you were to plot the motion of these particles over time they would be like strings across space and time. Like a 4-dimensional spider web.
What if you pulled on one of these strings? Pulling it would mean changing its position across time and space. In other words, Free Will is possible at a given instant but doing so will also mean you change the past as well as the future.

I've encountered so many people like you with all these ideas pulled out of thin air, I wonder, why don't you go and enlighten all the other scientists? How did you make these amazing discoveries?

(August 19, 2016 at 10:48 am)Jesster Wrote: I'll be honest and say that I haven't put a lot of thought into this one. I've heard a lot of deep discussion about it, but it's not something that concerns me all that much. The only point I can make so far is that whether or not I have free will really won't change much for me in the end. If I have free will, then I will continue living as I am because this is how I choose to live. If I do not have free will, then I have no choice but to continue living as I am. It's a good philosophical topic though. I'll be reading along as others post.

I got myself into an existential crisis because of this free will, and here you are, untouched. Pls, teach me how to think like you ;_;

(August 21, 2016 at 4:20 am)RozKek Wrote:

(August 19, 2016 at 10:48 am)Jesster Wrote: I'll be honest and say that I haven't put a lot of thought into this one. I've heard a lot of deep discussion about it, but it's not something that concerns me all that much. The only point I can make so far is that whether or not I have free will really won't change much for me in the end. If I have free will, then I will continue living as I am because this is how I choose to live. If I do not have free will, then I have no choice but to continue living as I am. It's a good philosophical topic though. I'll be reading along as others post.

I got myself into an existential crisis because of this free will, and here you are, untouched. Pls, teach me how to think like you ;_;

Oh sure, I'm a big damn hero.

Don't credit me too much. I just fell into a different hole than you did. I learned to say "fuck it" a lot to completely unrelated things after that.

Don't prop me up as a role model. Think of the children.

(August 21, 2016 at 4:26 am)Jesster Wrote:

(August 21, 2016 at 4:20 am)RozKek Wrote: I got myself into an existential crisis because of this free will, and here you are, untouched. Pls, teach me how to think like you ;_;

Oh sure, I'm a big damn hero.

Don't credit me too much. I just fell into a different hole than you did. I learned to say "fuck it" a lot to completely unrelated things after that.

Don't prop me up as a role model. Think of the children.

You're my hero! 

I'll adopt the fuck it method from now on.

The children? Fuck it.

(August 20, 2016 at 11:38 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: This free will thread isn't phenomenologically sexy enough.

Where's Gem when ya need her?

How about we try the existential approach. Absurdism. Joss Whedon made no secret about the fact that his absurdist philosophy informed his writing, and there's an episode of Buffy that I think illustrates this well. Episode 9 of season 6--"Smashed."

Tension has been building up between Buffy and Spike throughout the season. Then Spike finds out the chip in his head doesn't protect Buffy from him. 

They both slug it out in a wild, thrilling assault on one another's preternaturally strong bodies, until the smoldering heat between erupts into raw sexual passion. No less violent, their love-making takes them from room to room, smashing the very building apart, until the roof collapses on them. 

Rather like two participants in an argument over free will, who careen from thread to thread, ravishing one another with their philosophical disquisitions, until the forum comes crashing down on their heads in a climax of phenomenological sexiness. 

Yeah...kinda like that. I'm sure there's some existential themes in there somewhere. 

Mmm sexiness is a better purpose for a free will thread than discussing free will.

And absurdism is the shit. Truly epic.

There is only one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Why should we not just kill ourselves? Once we have an answer to that question, we have a reason to live in this absurd world, be it a 'correct' or 'incorrect' reason, it is a reason nonetheless in the sense that it is meaningful to us as individuals.

(August 21, 2016 at 6:14 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Mmm sexiness is a better purpose for a free will thread than discussing free will.

And absurdism is the shit. Truly epic.

Camus

Quote:There is only one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Why should we not just kill ourselves? Once we have an answer to that question, we have a reason to live in this absurd world, be it a 'correct' or 'incorrect' reason, it is a reason nonetheless in the sense that it is meaningful to us as individuals.

I have to go to work unfortunately. Why can't we just talk about philosophy all day? Sleep and work are absurd.

Unless in unbearable pain or in a scenario where a sacrifice might be needed to save one's loved ones, suicide is irrational. We have the drive to survive. Just because not all of our drives make complete sense in our era, that one can't be broken by mere fancy philosophy and/or power of will. That one is there for the ride, pretty much forever. As long as one lives, one will wish to continue to live. If there appeared a drug tomorrow to grant immortality and freedom from all sickness and it was distributed freely to everyone, only mentally ill people wouldn't be willing to take it. Everyone else would, to a one.

Yes, I'm back to my old self where I make assertive statements like that. That doesn't mean I'm going to insult people, I'm merely expressing my opinion in a certain confident manner in order to generate as much discussion as possible.