(September 25, 2016 at 5:58 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 11:19 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I do not give a flying shit how you theists reconcile your gitty retakes on iron age mythology. Drowning your children as a form of discipline is the subject on the table! What of it?

Yes. I think it was OK for children to drown in the great flood, just as I think that it's OK for everyone, including children, to die.

Your christer beliefs make you a terrible person.

(September 30, 2016 at 2:17 am)ED scissor hands Wrote: a loving God, I believed the Christian bible and the words to be true and placed them into my life style, , for over thirty years ,but then I do think if God loves us, why would he use a punishment so awful that it be torment and hell for ever,
like say for I,E,
if I believed in God and my mother did not, she would go to hell, and god would love me over her, ? is this justified or morally correct,
I love my mother, and I think God should also ,she is not a bad person, and she has sacrificed all to raise me, ...huh.....?

I and many others in the church including various church fathers didn't and don't believe that the bible teaches everlasting torment in hell. I think this was included in my OP for this thread.

(September 30, 2016 at 2:12 am)robvalue Wrote: Still no idea what's going on I'm afraid. Thanks for trying.

There is no such thing as "correct" morality. It's based on value judgements. I don't give a monkeys what god's opinion is, if there is such a being.

It gets further complicated in religion: does morality mean doing what's best for people, or doing what God wants? If they are the same thing, God is irrelevant. If they are different, God poisons morality.

If you look at the bible and God and decide whether he is good or not, you already have your morality in place. You can't have it both ways.

What God wants is what is best for people. When we do God's will we do what's best for people. You're idea of morality isn't always best for people. Making a decision to keep someone from suffering is not always what is best for that person. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Generally, people who have never suffered are worthless. Then, of course, it is immoral to live in a way or encourage someone else to abandon or refuse to accept what will be best for them for eternity. Is it better to suffer to attain something good or not?

(September 30, 2016 at 2:20 am)robvalue Wrote: Exactly. Any being which creates a system of punishment from which there is no escape is evil. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

I'll go further. Any being that creates a system of anything from which there is no escape is evil.

(September 30, 2016 at 2:17 am)ED scissor hands Wrote: a loving God, I believed the Christian bible and the words to be true and placed them into my life style, , for over thirty years ,but then I do think if God loves us, why would he use a punishment so awful that it be torment and hell for ever,
like say for I,E,
if I believed in God and my mother did not, she would go to hell, and god would love me over her, ? is this justified or morally correct,
I love my mother, and I think God should also ,she is not a bad person, and she has sacrificed all to raise me, ...huh.....?

I and many others in the church including various church fathers didn't and don't believe that the bible teaches everlasting torment in hell.   I think this was included in my OP for this thread.  Did your mother love you and did she ever make you or let you suffer?  I'll bet she did.  Really though, I think that christianity has taken a large hit over it's embracing everlasting damnation and needs to really study what the bible says on this subject.

(September 30, 2016 at 1:02 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 2:20 am)robvalue Wrote: Exactly. Any being which creates a system of punishment from which there is no escape is evil. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

I'll go further. Any being that creates a system of anything from which there is no escape is evil.

Why?

(September 30, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 1:02 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'll go further. Any being that creates a system of anything from which there is no escape is evil.

Why?

It's the definition of a classic jailor, or someone who's sole purpose is domination. Shackles are shackles, whether you're being whipped and burned or fed ice cream cake.

(September 30, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 1:02 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'll go further. Any being that creates a system of anything from which there is no escape is evil.

Why?

What part of "from which there is no escape" can possibly not be evil?

(September 30, 2016 at 2:20 am)robvalue Wrote: Exactly. Any being which creates a system of punishment from which there is no escape is evil. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

It also shows how lacking in confidence it is in its ability to convince people. I mean, I used to be a maths teacher and I could get people to believe things without carrying around a torture rack. I had confidence in myself. And I wouldn't want them to just say they believed it so I didn't torture them, either.

What kind of sick fuck is this guy? Apart from fear, why is anyone giving him the time of day?

There is no "eternal punishment". Bad translation. The Greek words "kolasin aionion" means corrective chastisement for an age. The root meaning in kolasin is corrective pruning like for a tree. Not vindictive torment.

(September 30, 2016 at 1:21 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Why?

It's the definition of a classic jailor, or someone who's sole purpose is domination. Shackles are shackles, whether you're being whipped and burned or fed ice cream cake.

And if outside equals dissolution?