...You really can't say whether or not the parents handled this the right way?

And you might've heard about it so often because it's fucking important.

(October 12, 2016 at 2:56 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: ...You really can't say whether or not the parents handled this the right way?

All I can say with certainty is I don't believe that would be the way I would handle it if I were the parents.  We only know what was released and how much of that was the full story is difficult to say.

Why do say it's important? To me all it proves is the Duggars are in fact humans and not mindless automatons that can do no wrong.

As soon as their actions stop affecting my life, I will stop judging them. My parents eat up every word that the Duggars spew out. I am now unable to have a functional relationship with my parents because of that. I don't accuse Christians in general of being like the Duggars, but I do ask that Christians do not move in to defend the Duggars while their words and actions have power over the media.

(October 12, 2016 at 2:59 pm)Jesster Wrote: As soon as their actions stop affecting my life, I will stop judging them. My parents eat up every word that the Duggars spew out. I am now unable to have a functional relationship with my parents because of that. I don't accuse Christians in general of being like the Duggars, but I do ask that Christians do not move in to defend the Duggars while their words and actions have power over the media.

I can certainly understand your position based on this, but keep in mind it is your parents choices that are affecting you.  Have you tried to have a conversation with your parents about how this affects you?  I encourage my children to have respectful and honest discourse with us and we often discuss how they feel, where they agree and disagree with us, etc.  I also encourage my children to be their own people and not rely solely on mom and dad or one source, but to strive for knowledge in all areas and make informed decisions.

(October 12, 2016 at 3:03 pm)Kingpin Wrote:

(October 12, 2016 at 2:59 pm)Jesster Wrote: As soon as their actions stop affecting my life, I will stop judging them. My parents eat up every word that the Duggars spew out. I am now unable to have a functional relationship with my parents because of that. I don't accuse Christians in general of being like the Duggars, but I do ask that Christians do not move in to defend the Duggars while their words and actions have power over the media.

I can certainly understand your position based on this, but keep in mind it is your parents choices that are affecting you.  Have you tried to have a conversation with your parents about how this affects you?  I encourage my children to have respectful and honest discourse with us and we often discuss how they feel, where they agree and disagree with us, etc.  I also encourage my children to be their own people and not rely solely on mom and dad or one source, but to strive for knowledge in all areas and make informed decisions.

Yes, I have tried to have many conversations with my parents. They are far too stubborn about this. My voice is far smaller than the Duggars. I recognize that my parents had a choice in this, but my point is that it is the words of the Duggars that are being regurgitated. How many other parents of LGBT children are doing the same? I could care less what the Duggars do in their own home (with the exception of the scandal), but when it affects families across this country, you better bet that I will judge them. That's the only way things change.

(October 12, 2016 at 3:07 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(October 12, 2016 at 3:03 pm)Kingpin Wrote: I can certainly understand your position based on this, but keep in mind it is your parents choices that are affecting you.  Have you tried to have a conversation with your parents about how this affects you?  I encourage my children to have respectful and honest discourse with us and we often discuss how they feel, where they agree and disagree with us, etc.  I also encourage my children to be their own people and not rely solely on mom and dad or one source, but to strive for knowledge in all areas and make informed decisions.

Yes, I have tried to have many conversations with my parents. They are far too stubborn about this. My voice is far smaller than the Duggars. I recognize that my parents had a choice in this, but my point is that it is the words of the Duggars that are being regurgitated. How many other parents of LGBT children are doing the same? I could care less what the Duggars do in their own home (with the exception of the scandal), but when it affects families across this country, you better bet that I will judge them. That's the only way things change.

I find it difficult to fault you in your logic.  Considering your parents hard stance on the LGBT issue and it seemingly being a regurgitation of words espoused by the Duggars, I can understand your frustration on it.  However, I feel what you are most upset with is the stance itself and not directly those espousing it.  The Duggar's stance on LGBT issues is not unique to them.  They may be in the most public view of all those that carry those same stances, but it is not solely their view.  

I may be classified as "judging" your parents but I could say I feel your parents are wrong on this.  But honestly that is my opinion.  All I can tell you is continue to tell them (with full emotion) the pain and frustration that their stance has on you in your life.  More importantly how it shapes your vision of them as loving parents.  Be honest.  The words will hurt and probably both ways.  Note that you are NOT doing this with a motivation to CHANGE their view, but only to make them understand how that view and words/actions used to express that view directly effects your life.  They may then realize the weight of the words and actions and could elect to change those while not modifying their opinion and point of view.

They're followers of Bill Gothard, who has not only been accused multiple times of sexual assault, he is basically a cult leader.  And here's how he teaches them to deal with sexual abuse, by downplaying the abuser's culpability and blaming the victim for things like "immodest dress."



I'm normally one that tries understand where other people are coming from, but I have no problem judging the Duggars for who they are.

(October 12, 2016 at 3:17 pm)Kingpin Wrote:

(October 12, 2016 at 3:07 pm)Jesster Wrote: Yes, I have tried to have many conversations with my parents. They are far too stubborn about this. My voice is far smaller than the Duggars. I recognize that my parents had a choice in this, but my point is that it is the words of the Duggars that are being regurgitated. How many other parents of LGBT children are doing the same? I could care less what the Duggars do in their own home (with the exception of the scandal), but when it affects families across this country, you better bet that I will judge them. That's the only way things change.

I find it difficult to fault you in your logic.  Considering your parents hard stance on the LGBT issue and it seemingly being a regurgitation of words espoused by the Duggars, I can understand your frustration on it.  However, I feel what you are most upset with is the stance itself and not directly those espousing it.  The Duggar's stance on LGBT issues is not unique to them.  They may be in the most public view of all those that carry those same stances, but it is not solely their view.  

I may be classified as "judging" your parents but I could say I feel your parents are wrong on this.  But honestly that is my opinion.  All I can tell you is continue to tell them (with full emotion) the pain and frustration that their stance has on you in your life.  More importantly how it shapes your vision of them as loving parents.  Be honest.  The words will hurt and probably both ways.  Note that you are NOT doing this with a motivation to CHANGE their view, but only to make them understand how that view and words/actions used to express that view directly effects your life.  They may then realize the weight of the words and actions and could elect to change those while not modifying their opinion and point of view.

No, I said the exact opposite. Please don't misinterpret my meaning. The Duggars are giving people ammo to use against LGBT people, and it is being used. That is exactly what I am frustrated about. If I was frustrated about something else, I would have said as much.

Please remix my words more to fit into your narrative though. I feel like that would continue to include me in the conversation.

Let me explain again why I am judging them. It is not simply because they have their views. It is because they are being supported so much in national media while they are spewing their words. I am also frustrated because every single time anyone has any complaint about them, someone (usually a Christian... case in point here) rushes to defend them. Before anyone says it, no I am not in favor of censorship. I mean exactly what I said before. Stop defending this vile family. They would have fallen off the media radar if people would stop rushing to their aid. Then they could just be a vile little family on their own just like everyone else with their views.

And about my parents: trust me, I am doing all that I need to do on my end. It is taking all of my patience and sanity, but I am giving them everything they need to come around. I have been doing that for several years now. I have not explained the whole scenario, so I don't need advice there either. I never asked for it.

Okay so you can come in here and lecture us on judging people, I for one don't care.

Going off your first post, which was like I said, a lecture and not really adding anything to the convo since we were discussing how shitty the cover up was and not really claiming that believers think other believers are all good. I highly doubt anyone on this site thinks like that. But the mistakes we make I doubt leave other children in danger of being molested. My family took my sisters and I away from my dad when they found out what he had done and the cops were involved right off the bat so yes I know what I would have done in the Duggar situation. I would have removed that pervert from his sisters, not locked them in different rooms over night. (because I mean really locking someone in? Can we say fire hazard? But that is irrelevant)

I'm not judging them for not going public I'm judging them for willingly keeping their daughters in harm's way.

Ok I understand now. I also don't want you to misunderstand me. I am not defending the Duggars. I am solely pointing out that this circumstance they found themselves in shows them as fallible people, just like everyone else, and that I personally would not have handled the situation they did. But can I say they way they handled it was wrong? I think that is stretching it. When you are in the public eye as they are (by choice), decisions need to be handled with greater care and there are more variables at play. Do I think they spun it as to not entirely ruin their reputation? Yes I do, but I cannot prove it.

I am a Christian and there are a great many things I disagree with the Duggars on. I think sheltering your kids from the realities of the world is detrimental to their growth as a person.

Sorry if my advice was not welcome, you indeed did not ask for it and I offered it without asking. It's in my nature and if I offended you I apologize.