(October 15, 2016 at 9:24 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(October 15, 2016 at 9:16 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: And those of us who don't have a belief system based on the bible use what's called a "dictionary", lol.

When the meanings of words change over time, the operative function is lost on the human mind. Dictonaries do not define words, the list current usage.

Dictionaries now list a "definition" for literally that means the exact opposite of literal.

My point is, your reasoning behind what you consider to be the "true" definition of the word faith is circular in nature, based on your assumption that the bible is indeed the word of God:

"Faith is 'a gift from God' because it says so in the bible, and the bible is the word of God, so that's exactly what faith is."

(October 15, 2016 at 9:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(October 15, 2016 at 8:50 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Then the telephone game wins again.  Have fun with meaningless, nonfunctional gibberish.

Odd.  That's exactly how I feel about your fucking bible..... and all other so-called holy books.  I wouldn't want you to feel "special."

It's not mine and neither my current belief nor faith is based on it or other "holy books". I do find applicable functions within them.

I guess you are "special" then.

Official islam deconversion kit:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Campbell/s2c1.html

MK, find out what the quron has to say about the bible!

(October 15, 2016 at 10:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I guess you are "special" then.

You are as special as you become, relative to nothing at all.

(October 15, 2016 at 10:02 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(October 15, 2016 at 9:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Odd.  That's exactly how I feel about your fucking bible..... and all other so-called holy books.  I wouldn't want you to feel "special."

It's not mine and neither my current belief nor faith is based on it or other "holy books". I do find applicable functions within them.

So, then why would you pull it for definitions? In any case, it doesn't help MK's logical errors, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

MK, are you using 'perception' in the sense of knowing one's own moral quality and that of others? Do you then also equate that inner moral quality with personal identity?

(October 15, 2016 at 10:23 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: Official islam deconversion kit:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Campbell/s2c1.html

MK, find out what the quron has to say about the bible!

Oh for Pete's sake! How about learning a little bit about someone before going all great commission on them? Ever consider that YOU might learn something from someone of another faith? People need to know you actually care about them BEFORE they will listen to anything you have to say about the gospel.

(October 15, 2016 at 12:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The strongest argument that is repeated in many verses in Quran is that God witnesses all things and as such no doubt he Exists.

Now this may seem circular, but is it really?

It maybe said we need to know God exists to know he sees all things.  How else would we know this attribute of God without knowing God himself and his attributes?

Well, I think if we break it down:

1. We require perception for our identity
2. We have an objective identity.
3. Our perception is not what defines our objective identity.
4. All spiritual identities need an accurate perception.
5. The ultimate possible perception would be more accurate than all other perceptions.
6. The ultimate possible perception is thus what gives us an objective identity.

Might be able to streamline this for you a little.  Tell me if I've preserved the essence of the argument.

1.  We require.
2.  We need.
3.  We're entitled.
4.  We've got God.

QED?

(October 15, 2016 at 10:23 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: Official islam deconversion kit:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Campbell/s2c1.html

MK, find out what the quron has to say about the bible!

Official Christianity deconversion kit (2 pieces, some assembly required):

1. 2.