(October 24, 2016 at 7:17 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: We exist to serve cats.

All hail pussy!

(wrong thread)

(October 24, 2016 at 11:32 am)robvalue Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 10:32 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Atheists cannot account for apparent cosmological fine-tuning except by appealing to necessity (brute fact) or chance (multiverse). If necessary then the obvious question arises. Why must the physical universe be as it is and no other way? If by chance, then an infinite regress ensues. Why is the multiverse fine-tuned to generate physical universes that are fine-tuned?

Still conflating atheism and naturalism I see.

An atheist who believes in magic jelly can account for it all just fine. Magic jelly did it.

Mmmmmm .... magic jelly.

(October 24, 2016 at 11:56 am)robvalue Wrote: It's not quite as snappy as goddidit, but at least people know what jelly is so it's easier to imagine.

Well I just don't give a jam!

(October 24, 2016 at 6:42 am)OttoVonKerpen Wrote: This is a question that I wrestled with superficially when I first became an atheist. I was content with my answer to this question for a while, but after a recent discussion with a Christian friend of mine, the entire topic just became confusing to me. And, like I said in my introduction (http://atheistforums.org/thread-45867.html), I need some help when walking through difficult questions.

The question is this: "There were many transitional points in our universe's history that led to us existing. If one of them failed to produce the results that it did, we wouldn't be here, existing. Isn't it too much of a coincidence? Each transition point was against huge odds, and each of them was an extraordinary coincidence. How is it possible that we are existing against such overwhelming odds?"

I had a basic response to this like, "just because it's extremely unlikely, doesn't mean it can't happen", but I am not satisfied with the answer. Can anybody lead me through the basic thought process behind why we can exist against such overwhelming odds? I have my own thoughts, but I am willing, and needing to restart my thought process. 

Thanks!

The overwhelming odds are themselves overwhelmed by the shear size of the universe. We are inevitable.

Especially when just inert dust in an ionized gas does this in space when it is cooled. DNA structure formed @ 4:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kanYuBptuZ0

Imagine what is going on in nebular clouds saturated with amino acids, cooling and free rotating in space.

Quote:If one of them failed to produce the results that it did, we wouldn't be here, existing.
Isn't it too much of a coincidence?

Only if you think you are really special.

(October 24, 2016 at 10:45 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 10:32 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Atheists cannot account for apparent cosmological fine-tuning except by appealing to necessity (brute fact) or chance (multiverse). If necessary then the obvious question arises. Why must the physical universe be as it is and no other way? If by chance, then an infinite regress ensues. Why is the multiverse fine-tuned to generate physical universes that are fine-tuned?

And this is where honest agnosticism concerning such questions earns its keep. Better that than taking a particular alleged god (a god of revelation and miracles, no less), written of in an old book that you happen to revere by cultural and historical accident, and shoe-horning it into a philosophical argument and then pretending that a bait and switch hasn't happened. Argue for deism all you want, Chad, if it makes you happy. But we all know that's not where you really come down. And Aquinas can't save the poor quality of the 'Biblical evidence' on which the Christian house of cards rests.

For me it is sufficient to know that the God of Classical Theism, known by general revelation, is consistent with the Christian God, known by special revelation. I see little point in drawing those connections for people who do not recognize the first, so there is little point in criticizing me for not doing so for the second.

(October 24, 2016 at 10:39 am)Irrational Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 10:32 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Atheists cannot account for apparent cosmological fine-tuning except by appealing to necessity (brute fact) or chance (multiverse). If necessary then the obvious question arises. Why must the physical universe be as it is and no other way? If by chance, then an infinite regress ensues. Why is the multiverse fine-tuned to generate physical universes that are fine-tuned?

The common multiverse argument isn't that it is fine-tuned, but that among an infinite number of universes within the multiverse, there are bound to be universes with certain ranges of values that permit for human life just by "chance".

Magic bingo machine basically "Mechanical God did it!" :chuckle: Sound's like scienced up special pleading.

The arrangement of the infinite universes can geometrically "fine-tune" each universe. For instance, the amount of space each sphere takes up in an equal sized sphere pack is ~74.05%. Which was the first calculation for dark energy in our universe.

(October 24, 2016 at 6:42 am)OttoVonKerpen Wrote: This is a question that I wrestled with superficially when I first became an atheist. I was content with my answer to this question for a while, but after a recent discussion with a Christian friend of mine, the entire topic just became confusing to me. And, like I said in my introduction (http://atheistforums.org/thread-45867.html), I need some help when walking through difficult questions.

The question is this: "There were many transitional points in our universe's history that led to us existing. If one of them failed to produce the results that it did, we wouldn't be here, existing. Isn't it too much of a coincidence? Each transition point was against huge odds, and each of them was an extraordinary coincidence. How is it possible that we are existing against such overwhelming odds?"

I had a basic response to this like, "just because it's extremely unlikely, doesn't mean it can't happen", but I am not satisfied with the answer. Can anybody lead me through the basic thought process behind why we can exist against such overwhelming odds? I have my own thoughts, but I am willing, and needing to restart my thought process. 

Thanks!

First and fore most the existence of human beings explains that there is a God who created all, how can atoms, protons and neutrons create a human being there is no way? Not too mention the inside organs, for our organs  to be so detailed in position, how can it be possible that we come from no where? Not to mention the fact that there is life inside of pregnant women, if we all came from no where how is it that we're able to multiple in vast numbers? By sperm and  an egg correct? Well how could a sperm and an egg produce an unborn child if there was not a source behind it? The ocean is so vast with water and the sky is a reflection of the waters!!!

(October 24, 2016 at 2:30 pm)Truth_Love2016 Wrote: First and fore most the existence of human beings explains that there is a God who created all, how can atoms, protons and neutrons create a human being there is no way? Not too mention the inside organs, for our organs  to be so detailed in position, how can it be possible that we come from no where? Not to mention the fact that there is life inside of pregnant women, if we all came from no where how is it that we're able to multiple in vast numbers? By sperm and  an egg correct? Well how could a sperm and an egg produce an unborn child if there was not a source behind it? The ocean is so vast with water and the sky is a reflection of the waters!!!

You really are just a simple simple person. Bless your heart!