(October 31, 2016 at 10:02 am)ReptilianPeon Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 8:29 am)Irrational Wrote: She's better than Trump, yes. But it's just wrong to say she'd make a better US president than Clinton. She's a little too looney.

And Hilary wanting a no fly zone over Syria, meaning Russian planes would have to be shot down, is not looney?

Not if they don't fly in the "no fly zone". [emoji13]

(October 31, 2016 at 10:09 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 10:02 am)ReptilianPeon Wrote: And Hilary wanting a no fly zone over Syria, meaning Russian planes would have to be shot down, is not looney?

Not if they don't fly in the "no fly zone". [emoji13]

Still, I fear the mistakes of Iraq and Libya are going to be repeated. Russia won't take lightly to the sovereignty of its ally being violated. Can you imagine if Russian gets flew directly above a US ally without their permission? There would rightly be outrage if they didn't go through the proper channels such as the UN yet we see American planes in Syria when the Syrian government has not asked them to be in their airspace.

(October 31, 2016 at 10:09 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Not if they don't fly in the "no fly zone". [emoji13]

Ain't gonna happen. Putin will never agree to that and it would be wise to remember that Syria is his strategic backyard for the Mediterranean. It's the only naval base the Russians have there. He won't accept Americans fucking that up for him. It's also the major reason why he's so staunch in his Assad support. If someone were to grant him continued Russian naval presence there, I'm pretty sure, he would drop Assad.

(October 31, 2016 at 5:48 am)A Theist Wrote:

(October 30, 2016 at 8:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My bold. 

I'm not sure where you came to that conclusion. Sorry if that was the impression I gave. It was not intended.

Just joking with you on that one, the boldened part.

But the rest is something I hope you take into consideration.

Ah I see. 

Abortion is an important issue for me, but so are other things. Trump pretends to care about the unborn, Hillary pretends to care about the poor. As Christians we should care about both/all. Ultimately, it's about having dignity and respect for human life. As someone else pointed out here, being pro life and building a pro life culture is about so much more than just outlawing abortion. Trump's treatment of women and his greediness and apparent unconcern for the poor does not set a good foundation for that. Don't get me wrong, Hillary's own dishonesty and sense of being above the rest of us, along with her vehement defense of super late term abortion (including partial birth abortion) doesn't make her any better. 

I know this is a lengthy article but it explains everything much better than I ever could here: http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/20/trum...n-hillary/

(October 31, 2016 at 2:05 am)Aractus Wrote: Anyway, Obama authorising Yemen to be bombed by airstrikes is just one clear example of a war crime.

You do realize that the Saudis are doing that bombing, right? You do realize that Obama is the Commander-in-Chief of the American military, right?

It is shit like this that devalues your posts -- clear misrepresentation of the facts. No doubt our supplying bombs to the Saudis for their campaign is reprehensible, and may be a war crime; but rather than limit your criticism to that fact, you had to claim that Obama "authorized" this when in fact he does not have that authority.

(October 31, 2016 at 11:07 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 5:48 am)A Theist Wrote: Just joking with you on that one, the boldened part.

But the rest is something I hope you take into consideration.

Ah I see. 

Abortion is an important issue for me, but so are other things. Trump pretends to care about the unborn, Hillary pretends to care about the poor. As Christians we should care about both/all. Ultimately, it's about having dignity and respect for human life. As someone else pointed out here, being pro life and building a pro life culture is about so much more than just outlawing abortion. Trump's treatment of women and his greediness and apparent unconcern for the poor does not set a good foundation for that. Don't get me wrong, Hillary's own dishonesty and sense of being above the rest of us, along with her vehement defense of super late term abortion (including partial birth abortion) doesn't make her any better. 

I know this is a lengthy article but it explains everything much better than I ever could here: http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/20/trum...n-hillary/

I am of the understanding that late term & partial birth abortions are only for the most extreme cases in which mother's life is in immediate danger, or there is no chance of fetal survival outside the womb, and that Hilary was very outspoken about these types of restrictions. Am I misinformed here?

(October 31, 2016 at 10:02 am)ReptilianPeon Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 8:29 am)Irrational Wrote: She's better than Trump, yes. But it's just wrong to say she'd make a better US president than Clinton. She's a little too looney.

And Hilary wanting a no fly zone over Syria, meaning Russian planes would have to be shot down, is not looney?

Let's say it is. That's just one view/policy among many, most of which I find quite reasonable.

But keep in mind I wasn't actually referring to views or positions on things. But rather on how they carry themselves as a politician and especially as a potential president of the US.

(October 31, 2016 at 12:12 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I am of the understanding that late term & partial birth abortions are only for the most extreme cases in which mother's life is in immediate danger, or there is no chance of fetal survival

It really depends on the state. It's my understanding that late-term abortion is performed for a variety of reasons, including those you mentioned, but also if the mother does not want the child. Partial birth abortion however, seems to be performed in order to preserve the corpse of the child for grieving purposes.

(October 31, 2016 at 10:22 am)ReptilianPeon Wrote: Still, I fear the mistakes of Iraq and Libya are going to be repeated. Russia won't take lightly to the sovereignty of its ally being violated.

It goes beyond that. The fact is, the Russians are on Assad's side because with him, they are able to preserve their basing rights -- their only naval base outside the Bosporus for their Black Sea fleet, and a well-placed air base. In order to preserve those assets, they entered the Syrian civil war.

Imposing a no-fly zone upon an unwilling country is, legally, an act of war, and the Russians, as Assad's allies who have been invited to be there, would be well within their rights to bomb or shoot down any American personnel and equipment deployed to enforce such a motion.

Because of this, there will not be a no-fly zone.

I am fairly familiar with this because I was borderline preeclamptic when I was pregnant (due to the placental abnormalities) which can be life threatening and is only "cured" once the baby is out. If the mother's life is in immediate danger, the moral thing to do would be to induce labor or perform a C section. Abortion at late stages like this involve dismemberment and that is very painful for the baby who already has the nervous system fully intact. Luckily in my case, the baby died before it got to the point where we'd have to induce him while he was still alive. He wouldn't have survived outside the womb anyway because of how sickly he was, so at least he went peacefully on his own terms while he was still inside. But I do believe Tib is correct that late term abortion can also happen if the mother for whatever reason decides she no longer wants the baby (down syndrome or other birth defects, life changes, etc).