(November 2, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If I was apathetic to religion in general, I would still at the very least think a conspiracy theory that panned out like that would be equal to or more unlikely than an actual supernatural occurrence having happened.

No, you just had to go with eyewitness accounts in general. Which aren't reliable at all as numerous studies have proven. We were over this on another topic, far as I remember. You also have to go with someone crying wolf and a crowd suddenly getting all hyped up. Even more so, since they probably all wanted to believe in a sign from god. I don't buy into the skeptic tale, for reasons I gave above.

You also have to go with human nature, willing to please and willing to be in on the action.

Even if you put all of that aside and we gave you the apparition to be an extraordinary event - why is it a sign from god? Your god to be precise? A catholic miracle so to speak. Why not a UFO as crowds in Nevada claim whenever they see something in the sky and get hyped to believe in a UFO? Why not Apollo or Ra, both sun gods?

You see, even if the tale was anything but a tale and an instance of mass psychosis - like so many in our history - you have to have some bias to pull it into the desired direction.

(November 2, 2016 at 5:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Also, what about the dry clothes and dried puddles?

It stopped raining.  The sun came out.  It was hot.  How do we know for sure that everyone's clothes dried instantaneously?  I mean, they got out there at noon and the supposed miracle didn't occur until about an hour & a half later, who knows how long they stood out there after a supposed miracle occurred?  They could have been out there for hours.

Here's another interesting occurrence that I find pretty convincing. First let me say I don't believe in 99.9% of "haunted house" type stories.

But this one case in Gary Indiana that happened a few years ago, along with another case that happened in St Louis Missouri back in the 1940's, I do believe was an actual demonic possession:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/...s/4892553/

...Apparently the police as well as some health care professionals got involved.

(November 2, 2016 at 5:23 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(November 2, 2016 at 5:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Also, what about the dry clothes and dried puddles?

It stopped raining.  The sun came out.  It was hot.  How do we know for sure that everyone's clothes dried instantaneously?  I mean, they got out there at noon and the supposed miracle didn't occur until about an hour & a half later, who knows how long they stood out there after a supposed miracle occurred?  They could have been out there for hours.

The point was that it happened in minutes after the rain stopped and the sun came out. Otherwise of course it wouldn't have been anything of significance.

Once again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why didn't anyone get pictures or video of these strange occurrences?

(November 2, 2016 at 5:27 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: ...Apparently the police as well as some health care professionals got involved.

I can't place the Indystar as a source and so I will give that one a pass. Though it seems some local media without ties to the world at large. But I do hope, you don't base "the police as well" on this one.

Quote:Austin, a 36-year veteran of the Gary Police Department, said he initially thought Indianapolis resident Latoya Ammons and her family concocted an elaborate tale as a way to make money. But after several visits to their home and interviews with witnesses, Austin said simply, "I am a believer."

One Austin we don't even get to know by last name.

But it's a totally legit story, because they said so.

The simple thing is that you just can't believe everything you read on the internet.

The part that I find interesting is when the little boy starts walking backwards and up a wall and ceiling in front of objective witnesses. One being a social worker, another being a nurse.

It's in official reports: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/...eport.html

I don't think those 2 women would have lied about that to the police and to the doctors.

Carmelite home?

Are you aware of the countless stories by nuns jumping 30 feets high to grab a crucifix and things along these lines? All reported by so called neutral witnesses. None of them confirmed by any serious investigation on the matter.

If that was to happen in a controlled environment, I would consider incidences like that. But not coming from sources where the bias already runs in overdrive.

(November 2, 2016 at 5:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 2, 2016 at 5:09 pm)RozKek Wrote: Really hits a nerve when someone brings up a point, ignores the answers, bring up the same points that have been answered, then when they finally read the answers that debunk their point, they don't change their mind. If you're not willing to change your mind about a miracle that clearly has natural explanations what the hell is the point in discussing/debating it? I'm sorry if it offends you, but willful ignorance really hits a nerve.

I've already explained several times why the "natural explanation" doesn't hold any water for me. Sorry you're so upset.

Don't take it personally, I am from time to time grumpy, my apologies, I was immature.