(December 6, 2016 at 12:34 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 11:10 am)Drich Wrote: Prayer is not about God knowing, It is about us acknowledging, and a willingness to change.

Maybe but I still ask for stuff.

Could you ask Him again for a pony?  Satan doesn't give me jack.

(December 6, 2016 at 12:28 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:23 pm)Emjay Wrote: The way I see it is that prayer stops people from focusing on themselves... by constantly either thanking or asking for help from an external source, people neglect their own inner resources and/or don't give them enough credit. It seems to me that it could lead to  a very shallow and empty existence, that lacks self-awareness and psychological growth because of constantly 'blaming' (in a positive or negative sense) the external world rather than trying to understand and master the inner world.

That really just depends on how a person prays. Praying is very much like meditation. You can pray in such a way that brings negativity and entitlement, or you can do so in a way that allows you to self reflect and have a more positive, optimistic outlook. The latter is what we are called to aim for.

Can you give an example - even if it's made up - of what you mean by a meditative prayer? And also, aren't most Catholic prayers basically scripted... all these affirmations you have to do... which seem basically like constant oaths of allegiance?

(December 6, 2016 at 12:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: A starving man cannot eat your prayers, C/L.

Which is why the corporal works of mercy specifically teaches us to feed the hungry. Not just pray for them.

Yeah.... so they say.

(December 6, 2016 at 10:22 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 7:35 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: So does the roman catholic church, by the way. It's just that most catholics are embarrased by that nonsense.

Edit: thinking about it more many catholics I know who squirm mightily if reminded of that type of prayer still regularly go into church pay €0.20 to light tea candles and pray for wealth, jobs, surgeries to go right etc. So for a lot of people the embarrasment is in having to qcknowledge they believe nonsense.

Incorrect. As usual. 

Honestly, you spew so much false information about Catholicism here. If you don't know anything about something, don't talk about it. It just makes you look dumb.

You rally do know fuck all about your religion don't you. You've gone the a la carte route completely, keeping the bits you like about the religion and blanking out the stuff you don't like. Yes, the church teaches that shit, even now. Why else have the banks of prayer candels right next to the altar? Why else have the prayers of the faithful (usual mix, one prayer of heal the world, two of protect the church and three of do good things for named parishoners)? Fuck it, why have saints in the pantheon to answer prayers for health, wealth and lost car keys?

CL just like it's inadvisable to get into a knife fight with a Sicilian, you shouldn't argue rcc doctrine with an Irish atheist. Most Irish atheusts are so because they've been catholic, had a good hard look at the bible, the cathechisms, the dogma and all the other bullshittery and said "fuck this for a game of soldiers".

So, prayer is NOT about begging for sh*t, is it? Let me present exhibit A:

Matthew 6:9-13 (ESV)

9 Pray then like this:
“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come, your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil."

Not even a "please"...
So I guess Jesus didn't know how to pray, huh?

(December 6, 2016 at 12:38 pm)Emjay Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:28 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That really just depends on how a person prays. Praying is very much like meditation. You can pray in such a way that brings negativity and entitlement, or you can do so in a way that allows you to self reflect and have a more positive, optimistic outlook. The latter is what we are called to aim for.

Can you give an example - even if it's made up - of what you mean by a meditative prayer? And also, aren't most Catholic prayers basically scripted... all these affirmations you have to do... which seem basically like constant oaths of allegiance?

Any prayer can and should be "meditative". By meditative I mean that it gives us some quiet time to reflect and gather our thoughts. I think that's always a good thing to do, regardless of whether it's through meditation or prayer. There are scripted prayers for those who prefer it, but we are just as much encouraged to do our own. 

The scripted prayers you refer to, such as the Hail Mary and the Our Father can be that way as well. There's a difference between just repeating them mindlessly in your head, and really thinking about the words being said. The Hail Mary prayer is about asking her to pray for us (we fill in what we want her to pray for), and the Our Father asks for forgiveness for anything we may have done wrong (which we then reflect on), it asks for the grace to forgive others for having wronged us (again, reflect on that), and then asks for the strength to avoid whatever temptations we might have to act wrongly. Both also have what I suppose you would call an "oath of allegiance" in the beginning.

(December 6, 2016 at 10:27 am)Stimbo Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 10:22 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Incorrect. As usual. 

Honestly, you spew so much false information about Catholicism here. If you don't know anything about something, don't talk about it. It just makes you look dumb.

Can i just say (and I'm being honest) that you would carry more weight in these things if you actually tried to correct our false impressions, rather than simply telling us we're incorrect and leaving it at that.

She can't so she just doesn't bother. She simply throws out baseless assumptions and rationalisations she's either made or adopted about her religion to help her ignore the bad stuff, hoping that if she wishes for the happy clappy la la religion she wants hard enough it'll come true.

Forgive my ignorance, but if you're the type to pray, wouldn't your only real "need" be to die and get to Heaven as quickly as possible?  This life is unimportant, right?  It's just the after party that matters.  So all you would really "need" is to get the hell out of here before you fuck it up and your invitation gets tossed in the trash.

(December 6, 2016 at 12:38 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 12:34 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Maybe but I still ask for stuff.

Could you ask Him again for a pony?  Satan doesn't give me jack.

Occasionally He gives me a good parking spot