Just the other day I had a headache, so I took some ibuprofen and prayed to make sure. Shalamy-galamy-zoop - the prayer worked!

I'd also like to clear up again that I do believe in miracles. However, I understand they are very rare, and the general consensus in my faith is that it is much more likely that God answers prayers by working through people rather than through supernatural intervention.  

If I lost my car keys, for example, I could pray for God to make them magically appear in front of me. Or I could pray for God's help in trying to remember where I put them, or in thinking of likely places I could look. 

But probably 99.9% of the time, when people lose their keys and ask God for help, they mean the latter.

Appears to be more of a play on the word supernatural.  It's supernatural if god poofs your keys in front of you, but not if god poofs your memory.  / shrugs.

When a person prays to find misplaced keys or whatever, it's eminently likely that taking those few moments pause gives the mind the opportunity to reflect on the situation and allow the memory od what you did witht he keys to bob to the surface. In that sense, prayer can be said to work; but it's not some divine helping hand, so much as the act of not trying to think for a moment.

(December 6, 2016 at 1:27 pm)Stimbo Wrote: When a person prays to find misplaced keys or whatever, it's eminently likely that taking those few moments pause gives the mind the opportunity to reflect on the situation and allow the memory od what you did witht he keys to bob to the surface. In that sense, prayer can be said to work; but it's not some divine helping hand, so much as the act of not trying to think for a moment.

This is true.

(December 6, 2016 at 9:37 am)Drich Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 12:19 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Never known anyone else to be so insecure about their own existence that they need round the clock  acknowledgement simply for being a thing.

example?

Alright, now that I think about it, deliberately obscuring your own existence to all but the credulous, the delusional and the ignorant and then commanding that everyone recognise your existence based on literally the worst evidence ever? And then destroying those who don't? That isn't insecure; it's completely insane. And not the 'quirky' kind of insanity, I mean ludicrous beyond coherence and cruel beyond measure.

(December 6, 2016 at 1:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'd also like to clear up again that I do believe in miracles. However, I understand they are very rare, and the general consensus in my faith is that it is much more likely that God answers prayers by working through people rather than through supernatural intervention.  

If I lost my car keys, for example, I could pray for God to make them magically appear in front of me. Or I could pray for God's help in trying to remember where I put them, or in thinking of likely places I could look. 

But probably 99.9% of the time, when people lose their keys and ask God for help, they mean the latter.

My bolded. 

This is what I mean by leaving the door open on your side.  When we stop messing with all the conscious bells and whistles and talking to ourselves about what we in all our self importance shall do next, we might actually get the unconscious mind to chip in .. or God as you call it.

---

(December 6, 2016 at 1:27 pm)Stimbo Wrote: When a person prays to find misplaced keys or whatever, it's eminently likely that taking those few moments pause gives the mind the opportunity to reflect on the situation and allow the memory od what you did witht he keys to bob to the surface. In that sense, prayer can be said to work; but it's not some divine helping hand, so much as the act of not trying to think for a moment.

Ninja'd .. but I worked in more bells and whistles.  

(December 6, 2016 at 1:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: [...]  If I lost my car keys, for example, I could pray for God to make them magically appear in front of me. Or I could pray for God's help in trying to remember where I put them, or in thinking of likely places I could look. 

But probably 99.9% of the time, when people lose their keys and ask God for help, they mean the latter.

Figures. 99.9% of religious people DO need all the help they can (or can't, as the case may be) get , when it comes to thinking.

(December 6, 2016 at 1:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Appears to be more of a play on the word supernatural.  It's supernatural if god poofs your keys in front of you, but not if god poofs your memory.  / shrugs.

But that merely points out the worst way for believers to make sense of the teachings that have been foisted on them. I prefer to look for most down to earth and useful way.

(December 6, 2016 at 1:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'd also like to clear up again that I do believe in miracles. However, I understand they are very rare, and the general consensus in my faith is that it is much more likely that God answers prayers by working through people rather than through supernatural intervention.  

If I lost my car keys, for example, I could pray for God to make them magically appear in front of me. Or I could pray for God's help in trying to remember where I put them, or in thinking of likely places I could look. 

But probably 99.9% of the time, when people lose their keys and ask God for help, they mean the latter.

Then maybe you could clear something up for me.  I've chatted with various other people on various forums, some of them Catholics, who believe every brisk breeze is a miracle and absolute proof that God is real.  That last Catholic I remember talking to pretty much accepted any and every claim of a miracle as absolute proof, even if it was so week that the Catholic Church would not recognize it as a miracle.  So I have two questions.

First, the big one (I know it's more than one, but it's a general theme rather than a single question).  Miracles were obviously not rare in the Bible.  Why are they so rare now?  What purpose did they serve in the past that no longer needs served now?  Why did God change?

Second, what types of miracles do you believe happen today?  Are they anything like the big things of the past or are they now more subtle, more "undisprovable", if you will?  Again, why did God change?  Are there any specific miracles in modern times that you believe?  Are those miracles consistent with stories of miracles in the Bible?  For instance, every single miracle in the Bible had a clear purpose.  There was a clear reason behind every single one.  A statue crying, not so much.  So if miracles are not just weird things that happen which can't be explained empirically, again, why did God change?

I'm sure you probably read all that and are now thinking, "It's a trap!", "What an argumentative dick!" or both.  I am honestly curious.  Of course if you say anything which I disagree with or which doesn't make sense to me I'm going to respond, but that's not my purpose here.  The last Catholic I talked to was...shall we say, "unreasonable".  When he farted it was a miracle that proved God was real, even though there was no evidence he actually farted.  You seem, at least from the little I've read so far, a little more reasonable in your beliefs.  I'm not hoping to convert you, you have no chance of converted me (unless that's a God in your pocket, but I assume you're just happy to see me), but perhaps we could understand each other a little better.