It's hard for me to respect anyone who thinks raw mockery makes for useful discussion.

I don't know how you people managed to get from immigration to abortion, but really in both situations, it's a case by case thing. Not all immigrants are bad people, not all of your countrymen are good people, and not all babies can be saved. But as human beings, we should try to preserve human life and happiness as much as we can. It's not a PC thing, it's a logical/rational thing.

(December 7, 2016 at 2:29 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: I don't know how you people managed to get from immigration to abortion, but really in both situations, it's a case by case thing. Not all immigrants are bad people, not all of your countrymen are good people, and not all babies can be saved. But as human beings, we should try to preserve human life and happiness as much as we can. It's not a PC thing, it's a logical/rational thing.

This is really close to where I stand on this as well.

This went downhill very quickly.

If you want to assert cultural subjectivity or subjectivity in general, that's cool, but it's not really an effective starting point when the topic of a conversation is "should we do/allow X?". It doesn't provide a framework for analyzing how to respond to a situation.

Is there any chance this thread could be redeemed and maybe go back to the original point?

Maybe we can rethink the name of the thread to make for more meaningful discussion?

Let's try:
Should we allow Syrian refugees into our country? A Machiavellian analysis

This was the impression I got from Macy's earlier posts on the subject.
I think I can cobble together a halfway decent argument in favor of Syrian refugee's given a Machiavellian political framework to work with.

(December 7, 2016 at 2:43 am)Jesster Wrote:

(December 7, 2016 at 2:29 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: I don't know how you people managed to get from immigration to abortion, but really in both situations, it's a case by case thing. Not all immigrants are bad people, not all of your countrymen are good people, and not all babies can be saved. But as human beings, we should try to preserve human life and happiness as much as we can. It's not a PC thing, it's a logical/rational thing.

This is really close to where I stand on this as well.

True but a woman's bodily sovereignty is about both (a body your don't control really is no longer yours could anyone really be happy that way)life is pretty straight forward due to the dangers of pregnancy

As for the standard argument about the embryo sorry a woman should never be forced to carry to term even if fetal  pain were a thing I consider the overarching suffering of a fully formed person is greater then a cluster of cells thou I do think we should invest In ways to make abortion unneeded and thus decrees unwanted fetuses

(December 7, 2016 at 12:43 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 7, 2016 at 12:38 am)Macoleco Wrote: Terrible answer CL. Being hypersensitive does not make you a better person than me. And yes, being hypersensitive is a thing according to psychologists.

Crying like crazy for everyone suffering in the world makes you immature.

I said I don't cry about it.

And I never said I was better than you.

Then I will. Catholic Lady is better than Macoleco.

Boru

(December 7, 2016 at 4:33 am)Orochi Wrote:

(December 7, 2016 at 2:43 am)Jesster Wrote: This is really close to where I stand on this as well.

True but a woman's bodily sovereignty is about both (a body your don't control really is no longer yours could anyone really be happy that way)life is pretty straight forward due to the dangers of pregnancy

As for the standard argument about the embryo sorry a woman should never be forced to carry to term even if fetal  pain were a thing I consider the overarching suffering of a fully formed person is greater then a cluster of cells thou I do think we should invest In ways to make abortion unneeded and thus decrees unwanted fetuses

Well yes, I am pro choice for the sake of bodily autonomy. I just agree with Aoi Magi because it is a case by case thing. I don't see how that made you think I was anti-choice. I dislike abortions and think we could find ways to reduce the need for them, but without outright banning them or playing the usual Republican keep-away games.

I also don't see the point in making this another abortion thread... because that never goes well.

(December 7, 2016 at 9:14 am)Jesster Wrote: I also don't see the point in making this another abortion thread... because that never goes well.

... Especially when we've had several abortion threads already. And just in case anyone is confused about my stance on it, I am pro choice too. Provided the choice is being made responsibly after exploring other alternatives.

(December 7, 2016 at 12:38 am)Macoleco Wrote: Terrible answer CL. Being hypersensitive does not make you a better person than me. And yes, being hypersensitive is a thing according to psychologists.

Crying like crazy for everyone suffering in the world makes you immature.

You're the only one here in need of growing the fuck up, kid.

(December 7, 2016 at 9:14 am)Jesster Wrote:

(December 7, 2016 at 4:33 am)Orochi Wrote: True but a woman's bodily sovereignty is about both (a body your don't control really is no longer yours could anyone really be happy that way)life is pretty straight forward due to the dangers of pregnancy

As for the standard argument about the embryo sorry a woman should never be forced to carry to term even if fetal  pain were a thing I consider the overarching suffering of a fully formed person is greater then a cluster of cells thou I do think we should invest In ways to make abortion unneeded and thus decrees unwanted fetuses

Well yes, I am pro choice for the sake of bodily autonomy. I just agree with Aoi Magi because it is a case by case thing. I don't see how that made you think I was anti-choice. I dislike abortions and think we could find ways to reduce the need for them, but without outright banning them or playing the usual Republican keep-away games.

I also don't see the point in making this another abortion thread... because that never goes well.

umm I no were said you were I was simply stating my position while we were on the subject and trying to relate it to previous statements on this thread i'm sorry if I gave another impression