(December 5, 2016 at 9:31 am)Little Rik Wrote: Talking about garbage

I think this summarizes your post. I don't know why you would suddenly shift gears and start preaching at me, but be aware that we have hashed out these topics with you before and all you can muster is improbable claims supported by sheer insanity. So you'll forgive me if I don't want to take part in your dreary circus again, except to point out that your approach doesn't work. You can't layer one pile of bullshit upon another and claim that you've baked a delicious cake. You've simply created a very large and messy mega-pile of bullshit. Try posting something that isn't insane. Thanks.

(December 5, 2016 at 12:24 pm)Whateverist Wrote: My theory is that Howard Storm (if any such actually exists) was never a true atheist.[/parody]

I understand Whatever.  
We all got theories.  
Who doesn't have theories?
Theories are especially good when we need to keep the sinking boat afloat.
Luckily my boat is floating very well so I don't really need them.
What about you mate?  

---

(December 5, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Hey Bizarro, guess what? I don't give a shit. I literally have no opinion, no knowledge or no interest in any of this.

Now go away and play in traffic with your blocks, you disingenuous little wankfart.

Look Stim.  
I fully understand your situation.  
Now is not the time to talk about it.  
Maybe when the spring will come and the ice will melt we may have a decent talk.  
All the best Stim even if the life is very hard.  

---

(December 5, 2016 at 7:41 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 9:31 am)Little Rik Wrote: Talking about garbage

I think this summarizes your post.  I don't know why you would suddenly shift gears and start preaching at me, but be aware that we have hashed out these topics with you before and all you can muster is improbable claims supported by sheer insanity.  So you'll forgive me if I don't want to take part in your dreary circus again, except to point out that your approach doesn't work.  You can't layer one pile of bullshit upon another and claim that you've baked a delicious cake.  You've simply created a very large and messy mega-pile of bullshit.  Try posting something that isn't insane.  Thanks.

You must be one of the more bizarre folk I ever met Ton.  

First (in the previous post) YOU ask me to explain how God or a supernatural world exist.
After I give you an explanation about it you now tell me that you are not interested in it.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND TON.  

If you are not interested in such a topic why you ask me in the first place?

Now next two points in my previous post which you ignore.

1) I put that it is natural that behind any creation there is a mind.
What about the universe Ton?
Nobody create it?

2) You are very eager to see all those new discoveries in this world but when I did asked you whether
these discoveries lead to real progress you fail to answer.

Triple failing Ton.      

(December 6, 2016 at 5:56 am)Little Rik Wrote: First (in the previous post) YOU ask me to explain how God or a supernatural world exist.

No, in the previous post I asked you to explain how blood flowing to the brain was relevant to any of the points you were making.

Quote:After I give you an explanation about it you now tell me that you are not interested in it.

You didn't give me an explanation for what I asked. You started preaching old bullshit that we've already discussed before in threads where you showed --as in this one-- that you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:If you are not interested in such a topic why you ask me in the first place?

Because I wasn't asking you that. I was asking you something else. I was also asking it for at least the second time, and with each request you got farther and farther from it.

Quote:1) I put that it is natural that behind any creation there is a mind.
What about the universe Ton?
Nobody create it?

Prove that someone or something created it. Until you can prove that, you cannot claim that it was created. See how easy that is to refute?

Quote:2) You are very eager to see all those new discoveries in this world but when I did asked you whether
these discoveries lead to real progress you fail to answer.

As I said the last time we debated this point-- you are wrong. You do not know what you are talking about. Consider what the world was like in the stone age and what it is like today. It is quite obvious that we have made so many advancements that we cannot even count them all. The level of progress is almost immeasurable. You do not know what you are talking about. You think that if you make a claim and offer up a poor or stupid example to support it, you have 'proved' something. You are wrong.

(December 6, 2016 at 5:56 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Hey Bizarro, guess what? I don't give a shit. I literally have no opinion, no knowledge or no interest in any of this.

Now go away and play in traffic with your blocks, you disingenuous little wankfart.

Look Stim.  
I fully understand your situation.  
Now is not the time to talk about it.  
Maybe when the spring will come and the ice will melt we may have a decent talk.  
All the best Stim even if the life is very hard.  

Aaand end with an ad hominem; I have no interest in engaging with you, so there must be some personal problem with me. Class act.

(December 6, 2016 at 9:51 am)Tonus Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 5:56 am)Little Rik Wrote: First (in the previous post) YOU ask me to explain how God or a supernatural world exist.

No, in the previous post I asked you to explain how blood flowing to the brain was relevant to any of the points you were making.

No Ton.
In the previous post you stated that a supernatural entity is all bull and here below is your statement.


Neither can any other science, including the ones you make up to try and invent a supernatural reality.  In fact, it would not surprise me if you idiots can't even come up with a working definition of "what is behind the physical-material aspect."  You're all pretty sure it's there, but you can't agree on what it is or how it works or why it's there.  You know why?  Because you don't have a method of testing and verifying your claims.  You will therefore never achieve consensus and never actually do anything useful for the world.  Build something that works with your "karma" and we'll finally take your claims seriously.  Until then, they're garbage.

I am not concern at all what other theists believe or say about their beliefs.
I am only concern about my philosophy of life and that works very well.
Why should I reach a consensus with anyone?
People are free to believe in what they like most.
If they are wrong they will have to sort out their problems later on.  

Quote:After I give you an explanation about it you now tell me that you are not interested in it.

Quote:You didn't give me an explanation for what I asked.  You started preaching old bullshit that we've already discussed before in threads where you showed --as in this one-- that you don't know what you're talking about.

Wrong again Ton.  

As far as you say that a supernatural entity is all bull I will have to say that is not because yoga works and yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate me from such an entity.
By feeling that the separation is reduced day by day I automatically know that this entity is real.  

Quote:If you are not interested in such a topic why you ask me in the first place?

Quote:Because I wasn't asking you that.  I was asking you something else.  I was also asking it for at least the second time, and with each request you got farther and farther from it.

Wrong again Ton.  

By criticizing my view on a supernatural entity it was obvious that I had to answer your criticism.
Now however you shift the topic on a previous point that I already explained of how the blood to the brain is relevant.

Here is your comment.............I don't need you to explain how the blood brings nutrients to the brain.  I need you to explain how that was in any way relevant to the point you were trying to make.  This is an example of how you drift from one point to another without addressing them, all the while trying to mock the intelligence of the person you're dealing with.  It's funny to watch, in a "look at the drunk guy stumbling onto his face" kind of way, but it doesn't actually provide any useful answers.

Then again, your track record on providing useful answers is so poor that I guess stumbling around like a drunk isn't all that different.

And here my explanation for the second time.
The topic was all about NDEs.
I was saying that a brain devoid of blood and oxygen can not possibly create sharp and clear experiences
that people remember very clearly even after many years.
You on the other hand along with most atheists said that the brain devoid of blood and oxygen can create
such experiences.
Do you remember?  
That is why I mention the blood in order to correct you when in a previous comment you only mention the oxygen.  

Quote:1) I put that it is natural that behind any creation there is a mind.
What about the universe Ton?
Nobody create it?

Quote:Prove that someone or something created it.  Until you can prove that, you cannot claim that it was created.  See how easy that is to refute?

I am talking about logic Ton.
You on the other hand talk about mental masturbation.
Logic tell us that behind every creation there is a mind.
Your dumbness equal the dumbness of the masses that called Galileo and other scientists fools.
It is bizarre that atheists that always praise science when science and logic contradict you you
expect that science bring to you 100% of evidence on a silver plate.
Logic lead to evidence but if you expect evidence before the logic then you will have to follow the hard way along an unsealed road.  

Quote:2) You are very eager to see all those new discoveries in this world but when I did asked you whether
these discoveries lead to real progress you fail to answer.

Quote:As I said the last time we debated this point-- you are wrong.  You do not know what you are talking about.  Consider what the world was like in the stone age and what it is like today.  It is quite obvious that we have made so many advancements that we cannot even count them all.  The level of progress is almost immeasurable.  You do not know what you are talking about.  You think that if you make a claim and offer up a poor or stupid example to support it, you have 'proved' something. You are wrong.

Wrong again Ton.   

You don't know what you are talking about.
Progress come when the positive is not affected by the negative.
You tell me one single thing that only bring the positive and I will cover you in 24 carat gold.  

Right now that you are on your computer you don't even realize that the radiations coming from your monitor damage your eyes and your brain.
Nor that by lying on your backside instead of doing exercised you become more and more lazy.
And what about the electricity that you consume?
And the cost of making a computer and disposing it it create more environment damages.
And what about your family?
They see that you care less and less about them as your interest is in the computer.

These Ton are just some of the negative things that go along the positive of being able to communicate
through the computer.
I could knock down every single so called progress but I realize that it would be a waste of time considering that i deal with a dreamer.
Have a good day anyway Ton.  

(December 8, 2016 at 10:07 am)Little Rik Wrote: In the previous post you stated that a supernatural entity is all bull and here below is your statement.

And nowhere in the statement you quoted did I say that "a supernatural entity is all bull." You're so confused that you don't even know what you are quoting or what it says.

Quote:Why should I reach a consensus with anyone?
People are free to believe in what they like most.

You've described the problem in a nutshell. People are indeed free to believe what they want. But if they want to actually know what is true, they need to stop acting like children and so some work. And when they do that work without preconceived biases and "what they like the most" horseshit they tend to work towards a consensus. Why should you reach a consensus with anyone? Because otherwise your claims are just that-- claims. And you can't back them up.

Quote:As far as you say that a supernatural entity is all bull I will have to say that is not because yoga works and yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate me from such an entity.
By feeling that the separation is reduced day by day I automatically know that this entity is real.

Ah yes, god is real because you can "feel the separation between you and him reduced every day." In other words... bullshit. Get back to me when everyone who claims this stuff agrees on who and what it is.

Quote:Now however you shift the topic on a previous point that I already explained of how the blood to the brain is relevant.

You made the claim, I asked how it was relevant to what we were discussing, and you went off on these bizarre tangents. Your inability to focus or comprehend are not my problem. And once again, you claim that I said something that I didn't say and the quote you use PROVES IT. Are you trying to sound like an idiot?

Quote:That is why I mention the blood in order to correct you when in a previous comment you only mention the oxygen.

This is so stupid. I mentioned that the cause of NDEs is oxygen deprivation to the brain, and you make a point that blood also flows to the brain. I agreed by pointing out that it is the blood that brings oxygen to the brain. In other words, my mention of oxygen also implied a lack of blood flow. You seemed to think that mentioning blood was significant, as if it meant anything other than the cause of the lack of oxygen. Honestly, Rik... what the hell is wrong with you? How are you unable to keep up with such simple concepts, so that you wind up making them complicated?

Quote:I am talking about logic Ton.

Stop stalling and prove what you're claiming, otherwise, it's just another claim.

Quote:Progress come when the positive is not affected by the negative.

Like I said, we went through this before and your current effort is just as poor as the last one. You spew word salad that is either nonsensical or stupid as if you're hoping that there might be a kernel of truth somewhere in there. There isn't. You're making this stuff up as you go along and you're bad at it.

(December 8, 2016 at 6:02 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(December 8, 2016 at 10:07 am)Little Rik Wrote: In the previous post you stated that a supernatural entity is all bull and here below is your statement.

And nowhere in the statement you quoted did I say that "a supernatural entity is all bull."  You're so confused that you don't even know what you are quoting or what it says.

Quote:Why should I reach a consensus with anyone?
People are free to believe in what they like most.

You've described the problem in a nutshell.  People are indeed free to believe what they want.  But if they want to actually know what is true, they need to stop acting like children and so some work.  And when they do that work without preconceived biases and "what they like the most" horseshit they tend to work towards a consensus.  Why should you reach a consensus with anyone?  Because otherwise your claims are just that-- claims.  And you can't back them up.

Quote:As far as you say that a supernatural entity is all bull I will have to say that is not because yoga works and yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate me from such an entity.
By feeling that the separation is reduced day by day I automatically know that this entity is real.

Ah yes, god is real because you can "feel the separation between you and him reduced every day."  In other words... bullshit.  Get back to me when everyone who claims this stuff agrees on who and what it is.

Quote:Now however you shift the topic on a previous point that I already explained of how the blood to the brain is relevant.

You made the claim, I asked how it was relevant to what we were discussing, and you went off on these bizarre tangents.  Your inability to focus or comprehend are not my problem.  And once again, you claim that I said something that I didn't say and the quote you use PROVES IT.  Are you trying to sound like an idiot?

Quote:That is why I mention the blood in order to correct you when in a previous comment you only mention the oxygen.

This is so stupid.  I mentioned that the cause of NDEs is oxygen deprivation to the brain, and you make a point that blood also flows to the brain.  I agreed by pointing out that it is the blood that brings oxygen to the brain.  In other words, my mention of oxygen also implied a lack of blood flow.  You seemed to think that mentioning blood was significant, as if it meant anything other than the cause of the lack of oxygen. Honestly, Rik... what the hell is wrong with you?  How are you unable to keep up with such simple concepts, so that you wind up making them complicated?

Quote:I am talking about logic Ton.

Stop stalling and prove what you're claiming, otherwise, it's just another claim.

Quote:Progress come when the positive is not affected by the negative.

Like I said, we went through this before and your current effort is just as poor as the last one.  You spew word salad that is either nonsensical or stupid as if you're hoping that there might be a kernel of truth somewhere in there.  There isn't.  You're making this stuff up as you go along and you're bad at it.

1) By criticizing a supernatural reality you automatically say that is all bull.  

2) There is no problem with reaching a consensus with anyone who practice the same path and within this
type of yoga a consensus is there but in your previous post you mention the karma.
There is a myriad of people who believe in karma.
From Hindus to Buddhists to a lot of other people as well and the belief in karma vary so a consensus can only be reached among those who follow the same philosophy.    

3) Let me explained what the feeling of separation is all about.
Suppose my mate Ton goes to the uni.
And suppose that to complete the uni and get a degree it takes 6 years.
My mate Ton now just started the first years or maybe is doing the second or the third or the fourth or the fifth or sixth year but he has not finish yet.
I am sure that Ton is very eager to finish the sixth year once and for all and during this time Ton feel
a sense of separation between him and the moment that he will be able to reach the goal or the sixth year.
This feeling is better known as a sense of separation.
The more Ton advance toward the goal and the more Ton feel that the goal is real.


4) By mentioning that the cause of NDEs is oxygen deprivation to the brain only you were wrong that is why I did correct you by saying that the lack of oxygen is not the only cause.
Also the lack of blood is important.
Not only that but by not saying that also the body deprived by the flow of oxygen and blood you pretend that only the brain is involved in the NDE.
NDEs eventuate when the body (brain, organs, and everything that make up a body) die not just when the brain die.  

5) Proving a claim?
In the physical world a claim can be proven physically-materially.
In the spiritual arena or world the claim can also be proven but by not having a physical-material structure is obvious that can only be proven in a spiritual way.
When in some next life my mate Ton will engage in spirituality he will know what a spiritual claim is all about.  


6) I did show you how every single thing in this finite universe go hand in hand with the positive and negative.
I also challenge you to tell a single thing that is an exception to the rule and instead of telling
of anything that you think does not follow this rule you come up with the usual bullshit in order to avoid the challenge.
Sorry mate you fail once again.      

(December 9, 2016 at 9:59 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) By criticizing a supernatural reality you automatically say that is all bull.

So this is a case of you deciding on an interpretation that suits you, instead of admitting that your reading comprehension is poor.

Quote:2) There is no problem with reaching a consensus with anyone who practice the same path

Sure there is. Ask all of those Buddhists and Hindus to explain what karma is and see how many different answers you get. And the more detail you ask them to provide, the farther and farther apart they will get. Just like any other religion or belief system that relies on mysticism or spirituality.

Quote:3) Let me explained what the feeling of separation is all about.

The concept is clear. How you get there is not testable. It cannot be falsified. It cannot be quantified. A person's "journey" through university can be tracked by a number of metrics with varying degrees of accuracy and certainty. Your spiritual journey cannot.

Quote:4) By mentioning that the cause of NDEs is oxygen deprivation to the brain only you were wrong that is why I did correct you by saying that the lack of oxygen is not the only cause.
Also the lack of blood is important.

Only because blood brings oxygen to the brain. I'd ask for you to explain what other reason there is, but I know you'll just fire up the WOO WAGON and go on another bumpy ride off of a logical cliff.

Quote:Not only that but by not saying that also the body deprived by the flow of oxygen and blood you pretend that only the brain is involved in the NDE.

Not pretend-- this is what research indicates. If you have anything more than wild guesses based on your need to remain in your dogmatic bubble, you are free to do the research and help the world gain more actual knowledge and understanding. I'm going to wager that you'll just hop back into your WOO WAGON

Quote:5) Proving a claim?

Yes, proving it. If you intend to hide behind the excuse that it can only be tested spiritually, you run into the problem above-- no consensus because there is no way to test the claim. In other words... you can't prove it. So don't lie to me about how to prove a spiritual claim when you are admitting that it cannot be tested. If you can't prove it then it's nothing but a claim and it's useless.

Quote:6) I did show you how every single thing in this finite universe go hand in hand with the positive and negative.

No, you didn't SHOW anything. You made a bunch of claims that we both know you cannot substantiate because we went through this before. You have your own definition of how "the positive and the negative" apply to the progress humanity has made, and you change that definition whenever it suits your point. I know that you don't have a coherent argument against what I said because you had a chance before and you failed, and you're trying to make the very same argument now. It's still a failure. Try something better.

(December 9, 2016 at 1:21 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(December 9, 2016 at 9:59 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) By criticizing a supernatural reality you automatically say that is all bull.

So this is a case of you deciding on an interpretation that suits you, instead of admitting that your reading comprehension is poor.

Wrong again Ton.  
Why would you criticize something if you believe in it?
You criticize because you don't believe in it.
This is obvious.  

Quote:2) There is no problem with reaching a consensus with anyone who practice the same path

Quote:Sure there is.  Ask all of those Buddhists and Hindus to explain what karma is and see how many different answers you get.  And the more detail you ask them to provide, the farther and farther apart they will get.  Just like any other religion or belief system that relies on mysticism or spirituality.

It is obvious that a consensus can not be reached with religious people such as Buddhists and Hindus.
Religions are based on dogmas while spirituality is dogma free.
Yoga does not follow the dowry system nor the caste system nor the hundreds of Gods which at the end make people suffer so much.
These religious people may well believe that karma is real but in order to be reborn a better person
you must follow their dogmas that is why yoga can not reach a consensus with these people.

Quote:3) Let me explained what the feeling of separation is all about.

Quote:The concept is clear.  How you get there is not testable.  It cannot be falsified.  It cannot be quantified.  A person's "journey" through university can be tracked by a number of metrics with varying degrees of accuracy and certainty.  Your spiritual journey cannot.

Yes and not Ton.
You certainly could not grasp any evidence that a person is spiritually evolved and God is within that person but other people can.
There are two requisites to understand whether a person is in a particular wavelength.
The first is to be more evolved than the person you want to test.
The second is to be station or be in the same situation.
Many years ago when I was driving taxis down in Sydney I could understand very easily whether the bloke
is a junk, a normal person or an exceptional person.
Years in close contact with the public gave me that understanding so yes even now I can tell the wavelength of a person.
On the other hand a person with a less powerful wavelength can not grasp what is above him-her that is why you can not grasp anything about God and spirituality.

Quote:4) By mentioning that the cause of NDEs is oxygen deprivation to the brain only you were wrong that is why I did correct you by saying that the lack of oxygen is not the only cause.
Also the lack of blood is important.

Quote:Only because blood brings oxygen to the brain.  I'd ask for you to explain what other reason there is, but I know you'll just fire up the WOO WAGON and go on another bumpy ride off of a logical cliff.

You don't get it Ton.  

Forget for a moment your oxygen and the cause of death.
That is not the point.
The bloke is dead and the consciousness separate from the dead body.
This is the relevant point all the rest are less important.  

Quote:Not only that but by not saying that also the body deprived by the flow of oxygen and blood you pretend that only the brain is involved in the NDE.

Quote:Not pretend-- this is what research indicates.  If you have anything more than wild guesses based on your need to remain in your dogmatic bubble, you are free to do the research and help the world gain more actual knowledge and understanding.  I'm going to wager that you'll just hop back into your WOO WAGON

Researches and more researches which related to the physical-mental aspect.
Unfortunately for you Ton you still can not get the fact that the consciousness is not physical nor mental therefore all these researches find absolutely nothing.  

Quote:5) Proving a claim?

Quote:Yes, proving it.  If you intend to hide behind the excuse that it can only be tested spiritually, you run into the problem above-- no consensus because there is no way to test the claim.  In other words... you can't prove it.  So don't lie to me about how to prove a spiritual claim when you are admitting that it cannot be tested.  If you can't prove it then it's nothing but a claim and it's useless.

Just answered to this question above.
Read it again Ton.  

Quote:6) I did show you how every single thing in this finite universe go hand in hand with the positive and negative.

Quote:No, you didn't SHOW anything.  You made a bunch of claims that we both know you cannot substantiate because we went through this before.  You have your own definition of how "the positive and the negative" apply to the progress humanity has made, and you change that definition whenever it suits your point.  I know that you don't have a coherent argument against what I said because you had a chance before and you failed, and you're trying to make the very same argument now.  It's still a failure.  Try something better.

Don't you realize that by not answering the question you fall more and more into the mental sewer?
You came up with the idea that we have tons of real progress in this world.
When I challenge you to mention one single progress you fail to do so and now you came up with more crap in order to hide your new failing.
Shame Ton shame.  

(December 10, 2016 at 8:28 am)Little Rik Wrote: Why would you criticize something if you believe in it?

You don't seem to understand the concept of criticism and how it works. Not surprising.

Quote:It is obvious that a consensus can not be reached with religious people such as Buddhists and Hindus.

Nor anyone who follows a spiritual path, whether they're part of a religion or not.

Quote:You certainly could not grasp any evidence that a person is spiritually evolved and God is within that person but other people can.

No, they can't. You can claim this but you cannot demonstrate it. Maybe if you were willing to criticize the things you believe in, you'd figure that out.

Quote:The bloke is dead and the consciousness separate from the dead body.

Please look up the definition of "NEAR death experience" and read it until you finally figure out why your statement here is wrong.

Quote:Researches and more researches which related to the physical-mental aspect.

So you are admitting that your claims cannot be researched or tested. I know that, it's what I've been pointing out over and over.

Quote:Just answered to this question above.

No, you didn't.

Quote:Don't you realize that by not answering the question you fall more and more into the mental sewer?

As I already stated twice, I answered this question the last time we had this discussion and you ignored the points I made and kept spewing crap. You refuse to accept how far we've come as a species because you insist on finding flaws that would still exist even in a primitive culture and blaming that on technological and scientific advancement. To continue to engage you on the topic would end with the same result-- I make points, you babble incoherently. I'd rather just point and laugh, thanks.