(December 18, 2016 at 6:40 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(December 18, 2016 at 6:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Unfortunately when some people talk about diversity, they are referring to those of different races, sexual identity, and country of origin. It's easy to tolerate those things. Why in the world would I care what someone's skin color is? Or who they prefer to have sex with? Or what country they were born in? I don't care about that. No normal person should. Those are surface things that don't impact me or my life whatsoever.

Diversity of thought is much more difficult to tolerate. People with different religious beliefs, different values, and different political opinions. That right there is real diversity. And tolerating and respecting all people regardless of those things is real tolerance, imho.

This is what the catch-22 is. If your (global you) thought or belief is that gays shouldn't have the same rights, or that police killing black people without consequence is tolerable, or that women and poor people should be deprived of reproductive choice, or that we should round up and deport 11 million people, or that white nationalism is a position worth legitimizing and supporting, then your opinion is deleterious to a free and open society.

I will support anyone's right to have those opinions, but I will be vocal in my dissent and my attempts to delegitimize those opinions. If that makes me intolerant, so be it. I am, by the same token, intolerant of attempts to evangelize any beliefs in schools or science denial.

Yeh that is a huge catch but that's what comes with multiculturalism and different cultures.

My work place for example.

Nigerians from the Ebo tribe who hate homosexuals, Muslims, and people from the yuroba tribe, probably getting the spelling of these tribes wrong so just going off the pronunciation.

Nigerians from the yurobo tribe in the same work place.

A Syrian who doesn't like working with black peoples or Pakistanis.

Pakistani Muslims who hate homosexuals and believe thieves should have their hands removed, along with a black Muslim from Africa.

A lesbian who thinks the Polish should go back to where they come from.

Me a part a part Polish person. Weirdly the lesbian is my closest friend in work despite her supporting hillary, being against Brexit and her saying Polish people should go back.

White old men who hate the Polish, black people, Muslims and so on.

So you could say my work place is pretty much absolutely full of vermin prejudice subhuman people or whatever you want to say.

That's the diversity that experience just being a part of it. Like a cog in a diverse machine.

So yeh I agree there's a catch with diversity in that within the diverse folds is a lot of dislike or even hatred.

Nobody's saying that there are not going to be a wide swath of opinions in a lot of places. This has more benefits than drawbacks.

What I am saying, however, is that it is dishonest and disingenuous to label me "just as divisive" when I call out bigotry and racism.

Everyone is entitled to say bigoted things but when they get called bigoted for it and they suggest that the other person is equally bigoted for merely pointing out the truth of their own disgusting bigotry... then they are simply flat out wrong. It's not bigoted to think that a bigot is a bigot.

(December 18, 2016 at 8:36 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Nobody's saying that there are not going to be a wide swath of opinions in a lot of places. This has more benefits than drawbacks.

What I am saying, however, is that it is dishonest and disingenuous to label me "just as divisive" when I call out bigotry and racism.

I wouldn't say that.

I think it's divisive to on the one hand claim the merits of diversity and free speech only to then shut down speech and just have the communication be all about shouting, swearing, calling people vermin and things like that.

And I don't have any principles against people who stop talking to me because I voted for brexit I just find it funny like watching a kid who plays football until they lose then they run away crying with the ball.

Calling out bigotry and racism isn't shutting down free speech.

I think the bottom line is that some people see Trump as being like Hitler so therefor a person voting for that person makes them responsible for Hitleresque things by default.

But I think a lot of people voted for Trump to fuck up the SJWs, I mean there's probably all kinds of different people who voted for Trump for all kinds of reasons.

So I can see both sides of the deal to an extent.

But I think you're encroaching on the territory of intolerance by calling this group of people vermin or deplorable or whatever you want to call them.

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(December 18, 2016 at 8:44 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Calling out bigotry and racism isn't shutting down free speech.

Ok, didn't say it was.

(December 18, 2016 at 8:40 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Everyone is entitled to say bigoted things but when they get called bigoted for it and they suggest that the other person is equally bigoted for merely pointing out the truth of their own disgusting bigotry... then they are simply flat out wrong. It's not bigoted to think that a bigot is a bigot.

It's an exercise in futility when everyone is a bigot screaming bigot at other bigots. Talk about an echo chamber.

(December 18, 2016 at 8:44 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Calling out bigotry and racism isn't shutting down free speech.

But now you mention it this can be a way of shutting out free speech.  Since people are afraid of being called racist it can be used as a way of intimidation if you want to talk about something race related but you're afraid of being called a racist.

In fact it doesn't even have to be race related in a sense, someone can shut down speech by calling someone a racist if they talk about immigration, president Obama, a non white celebrity.

It could be shutting down free speech about a non white person's opinions of a white person.

People who are whining about free speech actually do have plenty of freedom of speech. What they actually want is to be free of criticism about their speech... which is in a way opposing free speech.

I'm laughing my ass off at the people saying that if you're afraid of a Trump presidency and think he's racist, stop reading bias left-wing news sites. There is no need to spin anything when most of the reasons to fear him or think he's racist come directly from him or his twitter feed. It just shows that Trump supporters will do whatever it takes to deny reality, as if left-wing journalism needed to spin him retweeting white supremacists over 75 times and asking a foreign policy expert why we can't we use nuclear weapons three times.

Or how about when he was caught using false statistics about black on white crime and his response was, "Well, I heard it on the radio." No, there's certainly no need to worry about that man being in charge of the entire U.S. army. Even many conservatives are talking about how dangerous he is, so I guess they fell for the left-wing spin, too.

As for the country, I realized we are stupid beyond repair when we re-elected W. It may shock you that Trump was elected, but you have to keep in mind that nearly 45% of our country thinks an invisible being with superpowers poofed the Earth into existence less than 10,000 years ago.