(January 1, 2017 at 7:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: . We are not a religion of "saved by faith", which one excuse many protestants think catholics are not real Christians and will also go to hell.

Fixed that for you.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:41 pm)Mr Greene Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: . We are not a religion of "saved by faith", which one excuse many protestants think catholics are not real Christians and will also go to hell.

Fixed that for you.

Meh there is some stuff that I don't agree with in Catholic Doctrine, and the whole pope thing. But I just believe Jesus is the important part.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:36 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No at all. I'm catholic. The other catholic in this forum (ignorant) has said similar things. We are not a religion of "saved by faith", which is why so many protestants think catholics are not real Christians and will also go to hell.

Yea there is repentance involved lets leave it to the different school of thought category.

Catholics are mostly baptized as babies. Do you think an adult catholic without water baptism can go to heaven?

This whole conversation is reminding me of this:


video:


Replace 'starship' with "Bible", "preachers", "prophets", or anything that "carries god's power to all corners of creation through human vessels and their works"...
It works for every other religion, too, which I find to be just perfect!

Not a bad quote, for what is generally considered the worst movie of the TOS crew.... maybe it is considered "worse" by the religious who didn't like to see their god mistaken for a measly alien.


Why does a loving, caring god build up a place like hell?
I was once on a catholic forum and a guy there had a great notion - a notion which culminated in the complete absence of hell. And he was a believer!
The idea is - if you understand what drives a person to act in a certain way, the complete thought process, the influences, both genetic and environmental, and whatnot, then you form some empathy with that person and you cannot see the actions as evil. God, as the entity that knows all, even our thoughts, would then be unable to register anyone's actions as evil, as he would understand all the reasons that make a person tick.
As a result (I already spoiled this), hell would either be vacant, or not required at all, nonexistent.
The guy even asked people to provide examples of evil actions which could not be explained... and was left pretty much with only the tale of Satan.
The problem in this view arises, of course, from what Jesus is recorded to have said concerning hell and that dragonspride1995 has quoted. There's certainly a disparity.
Which is then more trustworthy?
- The logical conclusion that hell is nonexistent, or at least not required?
- The Bible version in which people need to go through JC to reach Heaven? (this sounds a lot like a call to submission to the powers that be)

I'll let you believers duke it out!

(January 1, 2017 at 7:47 pm)pocaracas Wrote: This whole conversation is reminding me of this:


video:

---

---

Replace 'starship' with "Bible", "preachers", "prophets", or anything that "carries god's power to all corners of creation through human vessels and their works"...
It works for every other religion, too, which I find to be just perfect!

Not a bad quote, for what is generally considered the worst movie of the TOS crew.... maybe it is considered "worse" by the religious who didn't like to see their god mistaken for a measly alien.


Why does a loving, caring god build up a place like hell?
I was once on a catholic forum and a guy there had a great notion - a notion which culminated in the complete absence of hell. And he was a believer!
The idea is - if you understand what drives a person to act in a certain way, the complete thought process, the influences, both genetic and environmental, and whatnot, then you form some empathy with that person and you cannot see the actions as evil. God, as the entity that knows all, even our thoughts, would then be unable to register anyone's actions as evil, as he would understand all the reasons that make a person tick.
As a result (I already spoiled this), hell would either be vacant, or not required at all, nonexistent.
The guy even asked people to provide examples of evil actions which could not be explained... and was left pretty much with only the tale of Satan.
The problem in this view arises, of course, from what Jesus is recorded to have said concerning hell and that dragonspride1995 has quoted. There's certainly a disparity.
Which is then more trustworthy?
- The logical conclusion that hell is nonexistent, or at least not required?
- The Bible version in which people need to go through JC to reach Heaven? (this sounds a lot like a call to submission to the powers that be)

I'll let you believers duke it out!

To punish lucifer and his demons.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: That and I think it is good to remember people were pretty brutal to one another not that long ago.  When the catholic church was so powerful it wasn't unusual to visit horrible revenge on others.  For all the horrible things the catholic church has done through the years it is hard to be sure there wouldn't have been as much or even more of it without the church.  People have been really mean sons of bitches.

Yes, that's true. It's really pathetic when Christians cry "tu quoque" over horror stories then try to claim Jesus changed their lives.

According to the bible, Jesus is the head and the church is the body. I can't punch somebody in the nose and tell the court not to judge my head by what my fists do. Besides that was my left fist. My right fist is nothing like that.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:55 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: That and I think it is good to remember people were pretty brutal to one another not that long ago.  When the catholic church was so powerful it wasn't unusual to visit horrible revenge on others.  For all the horrible things the catholic church has done through the years it is hard to be sure there wouldn't have been as much or even more of it without the church.  People have been really mean sons of bitches.

Yes, that's true. It's really pathetic when Christians cry "tu quoque" over horror stories then try to claim Jesus changed their lives.

According to the bible, Jesus is the head and the church is the body. I can't punch somebody in the nose and tell the court not to judge my head by what my fists do. Besides that was my left fist. My right fist is nothing like that.

We are the envoys/diplomats of Heaven That's right, and another reason why I want to wright this book because Christians have failed at this task. And yes we do believe that Jesus took responsibility for these actions at the Cross.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:47 pm)pocaracas Wrote: This whole conversation is reminding me of this:


video:

---

---

Replace 'starship' with "Bible", "preachers", "prophets", or anything that "carries god's power to all corners of creation through human vessels and their works"...
It works for every other religion, too, which I find to be just perfect!

Not a bad quote, for what is generally considered the worst movie of the TOS crew.... maybe it is considered "worse" by the religious who didn't like to see their god mistaken for a measly alien.


Why does a loving, caring god build up a place like hell?
I was once on a catholic forum and a guy there had a great notion - a notion which culminated in the complete absence of hell. And he was a believer!
The idea is - if you understand what drives a person to act in a certain way, the complete thought process, the influences, both genetic and environmental, and whatnot, then you form some empathy with that person and you cannot see the actions as evil. God, as the entity that knows all, even our thoughts, would then be unable to register anyone's actions as evil, as he would understand all the reasons that make a person tick.
As a result (I already spoiled this), hell would either be vacant, or not required at all, nonexistent.
The guy even asked people to provide examples of evil actions which could not be explained... and was left pretty much with only the tale of Satan.
The problem in this view arises, of course, from what Jesus is recorded to have said concerning hell and that dragonspride1995 has quoted. There's certainly a disparity.
Which is then more trustworthy?
- The logical conclusion that hell is nonexistent, or at least not required?
- The Bible version in which people need to go through JC to reach Heaven? (this sounds a lot like a call to submission to the powers that be)

I'll let you believers duke it out!

I love how Ray Comfort talks about people sinning when he tries to guilt-trip them into believing. If I'm just another cafeteria-style Christian, I'd just sin my ass off and cynically manipulate god by believing in Jesus to save myself from hell, getting both a hedonistically fun life and afterlife. But since I don't subscribe to biblical morality I'm forced to be a good, honest person instead. At least I don't believe in or fear hell.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:54 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:47 pm)pocaracas Wrote: This whole conversation is reminding me of this:


video:

---

---

Replace 'starship' with "Bible", "preachers", "prophets", or anything that "carries god's power to all corners of creation through human vessels and their works"...
It works for every other religion, too, which I find to be just perfect!

Not a bad quote, for what is generally considered the worst movie of the TOS crew.... maybe it is considered "worse" by the religious who didn't like to see their god mistaken for a measly alien.


Why does a loving, caring god build up a place like hell?
I was once on a catholic forum and a guy there had a great notion - a notion which culminated in the complete absence of hell. And he was a believer!
The idea is - if you understand what drives a person to act in a certain way, the complete thought process, the influences, both genetic and environmental, and whatnot, then you form some empathy with that person and you cannot see the actions as evil. God, as the entity that knows all, even our thoughts, would then be unable to register anyone's actions as evil, as he would understand all the reasons that make a person tick.
As a result (I already spoiled this), hell would either be vacant, or not required at all, nonexistent.
The guy even asked people to provide examples of evil actions which could not be explained... and was left pretty much with only the tale of Satan.
The problem in this view arises, of course, from what Jesus is recorded to have said concerning hell and that dragonspride1995 has quoted. There's certainly a disparity.
Which is then more trustworthy?
- The logical conclusion that hell is nonexistent, or at least not required?
- The Bible version in which people need to go through JC to reach Heaven? (this sounds a lot like a call to submission to the powers that be)

I'll let you believers duke it out!

To punish lucifer and his demons.

If it's only for those entities, then why mention the place to us, humans?
What do we care about it?

(January 1, 2017 at 8:04 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:54 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: To punish lucifer and his demons.

If it's only for those entities, then why mention the place to us, humans?
What do we care about it?

Because humans sin. God can't have sin in heaven so He had to find the legal loophole. That was Jesus's sacrifice. All it takes is (I believe not speaking for my Catholic counterpart) Repentance of your sin, Trust in Jesus, and Acceptance that your sin is forgiven. But come on, you're dragging me off topic again. And I don't want to preach to you guys.