(January 2, 2017 at 12:36 am)Stimbo Wrote: Kosherses? Curse us and splash us!

Nah, you splash yourself enough for all of us! *wink wink, nod nod

(December 31, 2016 at 11:22 am)Alex K Wrote:

(December 31, 2016 at 11:14 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Well uhh, about the testimony. I apologise. I wrote it at around three AM ish Last night, went on the rules I must have glanced over the no pasting links rules. I was trying to find a way to create a connection to you guys by providing my testimony and allow a deeper conversation. Thank You to bryan and Jester but this is obviously not the place for this type of conversation. As for my book, it will have nothing to do with theology. I was wanting to write on the topic of how Christians treat atheists. Such as aforementioned families ostracizing when someone turns away from their religion, or sometimes even denomination. I'm sorry if I was not clear about this. And well, exit stage left. Any mods want to close this topic go ahead.

You are welcome to share your experiences here as long as you parttake in the discussion and don't just preach or keep dumping copypasta. In fact, I would encourage you to stick around and offer up your experiences for discussion.
That I have removed the link does not mean that you are not welcome to participate here, I would have done the same if it had been a link to atheist testimonials by a new member.

So you're the son of a bitch that owes me a new keyboard!

In the future, how about warning the reader that they should swallow whatever beer they have in their mouths and secure the loose, open can before reading further?

As to the OP, it was never a case of being treated badly by a Christian. Whether or not any particular Christian is an asshole or whether Christians in general are assholes has no bearing on the validity of Christianity. It just doesn't make any damn sense. Nothing more complicated than that.

(January 1, 2017 at 7:57 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:55 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Yes, that's true. It's really pathetic when Christians cry "tu quoque" over horror stories then try to claim Jesus changed their lives.

According to the bible, Jesus is the head and the church is the body. I can't punch somebody in the nose and tell the court not to judge my head by what my fists do. Besides that was my left fist. My right fist is nothing like that.

We are the envoys/diplomats of Heaven That's right, and another reason why I want to wright this book because Christians have failed at this task. And yes we do believe that Jesus took responsibility for these actions at the Cross.

Yes, I know. Like a man told me, "I'm saved by grace. I can do anything I want. Come on baby, we can repent in the morning." I asked him "What do you do, sow seeds to the flesh all week then go to church on Sunday and pray for a crop failure?"

That's something else you may want to put in your book. We all have our own personal weakness, including yours truly, but using the cross as an excuse to not even try to do better then telling us Jesus will save us from our sin, just doesn't ring true.

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(January 1, 2017 at 9:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Besides which, I'm nit super-keen on this whole "brining people" thing.

It's something new god's doing now in the third dispensation. It's no longer enough to be saved. You have to be brined.

(January 1, 2017 at 9:11 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 8:57 pm)The_Empress Wrote: Why would God need a legal loophole?

Tell me and we'll both know. For an omnipotent god, he sure does have a lot he can't do.  It's as if there's some force or power above god whose requirements he must satisfy. He can't exercise the mercy he wants to exercise without violent blood shed.

You have the ability to stomp on a baby's head, but you won't (I assume) because it's not in your nature. The same goes with God and breaking His word.

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(January 1, 2017 at 9:56 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:24 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: I am curious though; I thought atheists didn't believe in hell.. err lacked belief in it.

That's actually irrelevant. The point is that you believe in it, and that you believe that we as non-believers deserve the fate (if the latter is not your belief then fine; consider this an illustration for someone who does).

In other words, whatever the concept of hell being mooted, be it eternal fiery torture all the way to eternal separation from your god and exclusion from the in-crowd, you are of the opinion that a person who doesn't believe what you believe they should believe - stay with me - is worth such treatment.

It's no different to my saying that because you didn't send me a xmas card, you are such low value in my opinion that I am going to make a voodoo doll of you (correctly a 'poppet') and inflict agonising torments on you for the rest of your life. That you may think that's insane is immaterial; what is on trial here is my opinion of you, and for such a trivial 'offence'.

Put more simply, by saying an atheist is hellbound you basically just said "die in a fire", because there's something broken in us that fails to match up to an "if you're not with us, you're against us" standard laid down in a book of myths.

Hmm, except I make no distinction between where you or I deserve to go.

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(January 2, 2017 at 10:32 am)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 7:57 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: We are the envoys/diplomats of Heaven That's right, and another reason why I want to wright this book because Christians have failed at this task. And yes we do believe that Jesus took responsibility for these actions at the Cross.

Yes, I know. Like a man told me, "I'm saved by grace. I can do anything I want. Come on baby, we can repent in the morning." I asked him "What do you do, sow seeds to the flesh all week then go to church on Sunday and pray for a crop failure?"

That's something else you may want to put in your book.  We all have our own personal weakness, including yours truly, but using the cross as an excuse to not even try to do better then telling us Jesus will save us from our sin, just doesn't ring true.

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(January 1, 2017 at 9:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Besides which, I'm nit super-keen on this whole "brining people" thing.

It's something new god's doing now in the third dispensation. It's no longer enough to be saved. You have to be brined.

As for the first bit, I agree. These people have not repented of their sins. They take their God for granted. Thats something my biological father does, he does something then says, well its ok God will forgive me anyway. Its maddening!

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(January 1, 2017 at 10:23 pm)Luckie Wrote:

(January 1, 2017 at 1:07 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: 1. I understand your line of reasoning.

2. You have not taken the mosaic law into the context of the laws you are citing

3. You are missing the "When in Israel" Portion in the beginning of the chapter.

Again for theological reasons I disagree with you. However out of respect for the context of the thread I won't get into them.

 
This is perfect of example of why Christians turn a blind eye to the transgressions of other professed Christians. It's called the no true Scotsman fallacy, and other Christians are just as able to disown you from their religion as you are them. To them, it is you who does not adhere to the bible that they follow. Until you grasp this concept, your notion of writing a book on the wrongs Christians commit without understanding their reasoing, is useless at best.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17 NAB)

Luke 12:51-52
51 "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division." 52 "For from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three"

Matthew 10:34-35
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." 35 "For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

Have you even thought this question out? Read Matthew 18. It tells you exactly how to deal with someone who has wronged you. You might want to do a bit more research into church discipline. What exactly do you expect christians to do, Broadcast over news broadcasts that so and so did something? You know i'm getting more and more fed up with this. I came here with the idea for a book that might have a positive impact for you guys.

Quote:Hmm, except I make no distinction between where you or I deserve to go.

Hence my little caveat, because I don't like having to make assumptions about a person's beliefs and opinions. So unless we are clear on our terms upfront, we just end up talking past each other. You or I can say "well that's not what I believe", as you just did, and be right. I had to qualify it in the form of a hypothetical believer, simply to get the point across. And it still didn't get there, since you went for the motive behind the message and not the message itself.

Besides all of which, we seem to have deviated widely from testimonies of xtian ill-treatment of atheists for the purpose of education, to defending such behaviour.

(January 2, 2017 at 11:59 am)Stimbo Wrote: Besides all of which, we seem to have deviated widely from testimonies of xtian ill-treatment of atheists for the purpose of education, to defending such behaviour.

yes we have.

The prosecution rests.

(January 2, 2017 at 12:07 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 2, 2017 at 11:59 am)Stimbo Wrote: Besides all of which, we seem to have deviated widely from testimonies of xtian ill-treatment of atheists for the purpose of education, to defending such behaviour.

yes we have.

So would it surprise you if anyone told you that this was a naive idea from the beginning? That's why I kept pressing you for what the whole point of your book was. A five-year-old could see that religion is leading people to failures as human beings, and we non-theists see it more clearly than almost any theist, so we don't need a book like this (especially if we're the ones giving testimony to fill it), and if your target audience are the kinds of Christians you describe, then they think they're right and you're wrong, or they'll use their projection complex to say "Oh, this isn't talking about me" even if it very obviously is saying they're failures as followers of their mass murdering sociopathic sadist. So if you weren't intending on proposing a means of saving or reforming the faith, or advocating its outright abandonment, there is zero reason to do what you're proposing and, I repeat, no publisher is going to want to touch that with a fifty-foot pole.

I normally admire idealism, but without the benefit of a rational outlook, there's nothing to respect in that. Just like in religion.

(January 2, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(January 2, 2017 at 12:07 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: yes we have.

So would it surprise you if anyone told you that this was a naive idea from the beginning? That's why I kept pressing you for what the whole point of your book was. A five-year-old could see that religion is leading people to failures as human beings, and we non-theists see it more clearly than almost any theist, so we don't need a book like this (especially if we're the ones giving testimony to fill it), and if your target audience are the kinds of Christians you describe, then they think they're right and you're wrong, or they'll use their projection complex to say "Oh, this isn't talking about me" even if it very obviously is saying they're failures as followers of their mass murdering sociopathic sadist. So if you weren't intending on proposing a means of saving or reforming the faith, or advocating its outright abandonment, there is zero reason to do what you're proposing and, I repeat, no publisher is going to want to touch that with a fifty-foot pole.

I normally admire idealism, but without the benefit of a rational outlook, there's nothing to respect in that. Just like in religion.

Thank You for your opinion. But all I have seen is a interrogation on something that doesn't matter. You guys know I believe differently from you, you guys know that I disagree with you. But that doesn't matter for the purposes of this book. The topic is on the failings of Christians, nothing to do with theology. And nothing to do with your guys lack of belief. All you have shown is the inability to even have a conductive conversation with someone of a opposite viewpoint, even when said topic may have a beneficial result for you. I doubt your scepticism, I don't even think you are a atheist, It seems that you are a agnostic. You have wasted the time of everyone in this thread. Now if I may politely heard the thread back in the original direction that would be much appreciated.