http://abc7chicago.com/news/hate-crime-c...e/1687517/

Quote:Jordan Hill, 18, of Carpentersville; Tesfaye Cooper, 18, of Chicago; Brittany Covington, 18, of Chicago; and Tanishia Covington, 24, of Chicago; were each charged with aggravated kidnapping, hate crime, aggravated unlawful restraint, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and residential burglary, according to the Cook County state's attorney. Hill was also charged with robbery and possession of a stolen motor vehicle.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Ok, let's not exaggerate things. "The left" didn't do that, some people on the left did. By accusing the entire left of making that sort of argument, how are you any different from that which you are accusing?

There's nothing that 100% of "the left" or "the right" did, yet we talk in those terms all the time. I saw enough lefty pundits and rank and file make the charge that I believe it's reasonable to ascribe it to the left in general.

Quote:Besides, even if the entire left did put something like that into play, why does that mean it's OK for the right to do the same thing? I thought the whole concept of "two wrongs don't make a right" was understood by most people.

The correct response to your opponent making a bad argument is to say "that's a bad argument, I'm not going to make those", not say "well I guess that means I can make bad arguments too!"

I thought the whole concept of "pointing out hypocrisy to make a point" was understood by most people. Maybe not.

Why don't Min's Damn Cops, Damn Christians, Damn Protestants, Damn Catholics, Damn Racists, Damn Republicans threads turn into this much of a controversy? Lol. It seems when someone posts a story on one of those, everyone else just rallies behind it. No problem, no arguments.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Shell B Wrote: Ah, the old "they started it" spiel.

Did you protest when they tried to lump us all in with the KKK?

Yeah, as they're enforced now, I dislike hate-crime laws. Were they equitably enforced, I'd still be uneasy about the idea of prosecuting someone for the added penalty of the thought behind the crime.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:24 pm)Shell B Wrote: But that's not the discussion we're having. A very simple statement about being surprised that no one has defended the criminals here was made. I'm trying to figure out why anyone would expect that. The response I got was that the media isn't reporting it as a hate crime. I guess, therefore, people here will excuse the criminals? Now, I'm sure you can find the definition of defend. It most definitely is not "downplays a part of a person's actions while still condemning said person."

Where is the double standard here on how it's talked about? You feign surprise that it isn't defended here, but have shown no reason to believe it would be otherwise. No one here has advocated reverse racism that I've seen. I certainly haven't seen anyone advocate for hate crimes against whites, either. This is a made up problem. It's completely fabricated. If you have so much disdain for the media, why are you employing their tactics?

To be honest maybe it should be Bella defending this instead of you accusing me of feigning surprise because it wasn't actually me who said anything along those lines.

I've elucidated my understanding of why previously, but to be frank about it, if you can't see the double standards people on this forum display, many of whom have no problem brandishing ALL Trump supporters as racists, then that's on you. What you're actually doing in your second paragraph is creating a bit of a straw man IMO. Nobody here said users have previously advocated reverse racism, or advocated hate crimes against whites. If you expect someone to argue about that good luck.

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(January 5, 2017 at 4:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Why don't Min's Damn Cops, Damn Christians, Damn Protestants, Damn Catholics, Damn Racists, Damn Republicans threads turn into this much of a controversy? Lol. It seems when someone posts a story on one of those, everyone else just rallies behind it. No problem, no arguments.

Ah you can be racist as long as it's towards "Drumpf". Which btw, could itself be considered a somewhat racist put down as it refers to Trump's heritage.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Why don't Min's Damn Cops, Damn Christians, Damn Protestants, Damn Catholics, Damn Racists, Damn Republicans threads turn into this much of a controversy? Lol. It seems when someone posts a story on one of those, everyone else just rallies behind it. No problem, no arguments.

Because he's complaining about specific groups of people that certain groups like or don't like. You either ignore it (like I usually do unless the topic is of interest to me) or you agree and jump on the bandwagon. This thread wasn't controversial in itself. Most people agree this was racist and horrific. The only problems I could see were a quarrel between two members carrying on from another thread and confusion over why people would think the members of this forum in general would come to the defense of a gang of fucking miscreants. You're painting the picture as if this is something about a "damn lefties" thread, which this isn't. There are plenty of those here. I usually ignore them. I'm a bit left of center, but most people who wind up on the extreme of either side aren't the kind I hang out with on purpose, to put it nicely.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:39 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(January 5, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Shell B Wrote: Ah, the old "they started it" spiel.

Did you protest when they tried to lump us all in with the KKK?

For what it's worth, I did. Repeatedly.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:40 pm)Napoléon Wrote: To be honest maybe it should be Bella defending this instead of you accusing me of feigning surprise because it wasn't actually me who said anything along those lines.

Fair enough. You did, in all fairness, respond to my question. I'm debating it with you as I would have with them since you took up the mantle.

Quote:Nobody here said users have previously advocated reverse racism, or advocated hate crimes against whites. If you expect someone to argue about that good luck.

It's not a strawman. It's an inference. I inferred (inquisitively rather than authoritatively) that Bella and the theist dude expected people here to defend these criminals because they've seen such behavior in the past. Is that not a reasonable inference? What other reason could they have to suspect people here would defend them? I have not been broaching this topic in an effort to argue with anyone. I'm asking very fucking specifically why they think people would "defend" these suspects. I've still got nothing, so maybe you should have wished me good luck in seeking a reasonable answer.

Oh, and the double standard as you see it is entirely irrelevant. All I want to know is why anyone thinks people would defend these shitheads. I don't care what the media does. I don't care if people downplay racism. I want to know why anyone would think someone would defend the kidnapping and torture of a mentally handicapped male barely out of his adolescence. If you don't think people here would defend that behavior, then I don't know why you're even debating this with me. Feck off and get back to your griping about the mean old left.

(January 5, 2017 at 4:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Why don't Min's Damn Cops, Damn Christians, Damn Protestants, Damn Catholics, Damn Racists, Damn Republicans threads turn into this much of a controversy? Lol. It seems when someone posts a story on one of those, everyone else just rallies behind it. No problem, no arguments.

This wouldn't be controversial either if it was taken at face value. A despicable crime against a helpless person for two possible reasons. And I don't see why any of the reasons would be any less despicable than the other. It's still attacking a helpless person for what they are or represent and bragging about it. Maybe it's both reasons, who knows, who really cares. I for one don't think they had the guts to attack any given (white) person, it had to be someone who wouldn't stand up to them.

Some people however want to turn this into "See, racist, racist!" Well, maybe they are. And if they are it's still gazillon to one, if even half of Min's thread is true.