(January 17, 2017 at 8:53 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: You ask many questions for a single thread.  It might work better if you pick one at a time and devote a separate thread to each.

Speaking of meaning, does your God assign your meaning to your life?  How does that work in Christianity?  How does there being a God make your life meaningful?

God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

How do you know this?

(January 17, 2017 at 8:59 pm)Pulse Wrote:

(January 17, 2017 at 8:53 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: You ask many questions for a single thread.  It might work better if you pick one at a time and devote a separate thread to each.

Speaking of meaning, does your God assign your meaning to your life?  How does that work in Christianity?  How does there being a God make your life meaningful?

God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

So life and love don't give meaning to life without God? Does it being eternal make the difference? If I go to a movie, is the experience not meaningful because it's only temporary? That doesn't make sense.

(January 17, 2017 at 8:20 pm)Pulse Wrote:

(January 17, 2017 at 8:15 pm)Jesster Wrote: Oh, the site is probably blocking you as spam or something. An admin here can probably help you out with that.

Yeah I think they are working on it, hopefully this one will work; Thank you all for replies, Just a thought about what Science is Really about these days;

Professor of Genetics, Richard Lewontin wrote; “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfil many of its extravagant 

promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It

 is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori 

adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, 

that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”  Billions and Billions of Demons, The New York Review, 9 January, 1997, p. 31.

Is this an objective search for truth?

As others have said . . . the above is just an opinion, and I disagree with Lewontin. If there is a god, and that god has any influence in the world, then that influence can be investigated. The problem is that a god which operates outside of what we might call nature, is working supernaturally, and so it does not follow any necessary laws, rules or procedures etc. As mere humans we cannot set up experiments to determine what is going on, if the results are outside a certain remit, ie. if they do not fit into a set of rules of some sort.

But as I said, if there is a god, and that god has any influence in the world, then that influence can be investigated. So for example, we can investigate the efficacy of prayer, using scientific study. Such studies have been done, and prayer has been found to be unreliable in the promotion of the curing of cancer patients. I believe that prayer may have some positive effects in peoples' lives, but such effects may be entirely placebo. If there really were prayers, answered by some god, using powers outside of nature, then that would be operating outside of any set of rules, laws, etc. which science could uncover and put to paper. But first, we would need to set up an experiment to show that there is some outcome from praying, an outcome which is set in motion by prayer, which could be demonstrated to be other than placebo in its effect, or not just some natural effect which we have not yet understood.

I do not view that as being a failure to search for an objective truth, as far as we are able. Merely inserting a god or some explanation outside of natural or material causes seems much more like a failure to search for truth, but rather an insertion of some unknowable, untestable speculation. Such an insertion does not derive any real knowledge IMHO !

So science does not in fact rule out explanations other than the material, but when put to the test, effects outside of the material have not been detected, nor been necessary. Furthermore, where in the past a god had to be invoked to explain phenomena, science has removed the need for that hypothesis in most cases.

(January 17, 2017 at 8:59 pm)Pulse Wrote:

(January 17, 2017 at 8:53 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: You ask many questions for a single thread.  It might work better if you pick one at a time and devote a separate thread to each.

Speaking of meaning, does your God assign your meaning to your life?  How does that work in Christianity?  How does there being a God make your life meaningful?

God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

Utter rubbish.

IDK Pulse, god might give your life meaning, but it isn't on my list. I'm guessing it's not, actually, the only thing on your list, in any case...right? So, if you want to imagine what it's like to be an atheist, just imagine that you find meaning in all of the things you currently find meaning in, minus that one thing. A similar sort of relationship exists between you and I and polytheists. They have even more gods supplying meaning for them in their lives. So, just like you and I, plus one, or two, or three etc etc etc.

Quote:God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

There is no god but that doesn't mean that our lives are "pointless".  If you need a reason then I say that we have an obligation to make our world a little better for the ones who come after us.  We should be doing for our future generations what our previous generations did for us.  I reached this conclusion before I was even aware that Dawkins pretty much said the same thing. 

In any case I don't see an "Eternal Life" as any sort of reward even if it were possible.  Imagine a trillion-million-bazillion years being an immeasurable,  infinitesimally small amount of time compared to an eternity.  That would be absolutely maddening! It would only sound appealing to anyone who has never seriously considered what eternity actually means...   

(January 17, 2017 at 5:34 pm)Pulse Wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to present some points for atheists to consider and I trust the exchanges will be thoughtful and friendly. 


There are some very serious problems for atheists to consider;  

1)    R. Dawkins wrote the Universe has "no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." Dawkins, R., River out of Eden, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, London, p. 133, 1995.
        Why do atheists constantly use words like religion is evil, atheism good, when these terms are meaningless in a Godless Universe?

2) If you were really an atheist, you would realize that we are ALL just rearranged pond scum and life is just a set of random Meaningless events in a random Meaningless Universe. 
    So as an atheist, why try so hard "Meaningfully" explaining  that in this utterly Meaningless Universe there's no deity?

    a) Possible responses maybe; Religion is dangerous and threatens our survival; BUT in a Godless Universe, why is humanity's survival better than extinction? If humans nuke one another out of existence, what difference will that make to the Universe?? 

3) Atheism; The Universe Caused itself, no First Cause needed; this requires blind faith and is counter-intuitive; very much the same as what atheists accuse religious people of, seems hypocritical doesn't it??

4) The Big Bang Theory is Full of Fudge factors that are an embarrassment to Cosmologists many of whom admit the theory is popular because it is well funded, but how is that an objective search for truth? 


 [snip] moderator note: welcome to AF, but please review our rules, thank you. We ask newcomers not post links until 30 days and 30 posts have accrued.



5)   Atheistic science these days is so Dogmatically wedded to Materialism, it cannot even begin to tell us what Consciousness is, the most basic principle of human existence. Doesn't it seem hypocritical that Atheism is so dogmatic?

 6)  And BTW atheism has led to some pretty strange philosophies, like that of the Church of Euthanasia; Save the Planet, Kill Yourself! How can Atheists counter such "logic"?

As a Christian I have experienced that no Atheist on earth has any convincing arguments to these most basic questions which I believe only the Christian religion can answer. I'll be honest, believing in Atheism would be so much easier in life because you can do whatever you want and think there is no consequences, but Ahteism seems so incredibly counter intuitive, that to even begin to take it seriously, one has to suspend all logic.

Thoughts? 
(Again please keep it friendly, Ive had too much abuse from atheists already just for asking simple questions, and that just seems further proof to me Atheism is a delusion).

Frankly, it sounds like you've already made up your mind on these issues. So be it, although I applaud you for at least joining an atheist forum.
After believing in god until my 30s, I was exposed to other viewpoints that make more sense to me. So now I'm not a believer and nor do I believe that anyone should be allowed to force their theistic beliefs on anyone else. And, personally, now my life is much less complicated and more content than it ever was.

The idea that life is pointless without a stalker in the sky watching me take my morning dump and subsequent first sin of the day (whatever it may be) stretches the bounds of sanity.

I have kids; they love me. So do my friends and other family. It means that I represent value to real people, and those people are valuable to me. I have my work, my creative side, etc. Just exercising my feeble intellect on the internet contributes to me wanting to continue my existence. I certainly don't need the Great Invisible Pervert marking down another notch on his Opoponax list for every time I beat off (there'd have to a be warehouse to store that list). But the insane thing is that God already knew that I was going to discover jacking-off when I was 12 and He knew it would be a lifelong project whether I was single, had a girlfriend, got married, reproduced.

It's so goddamn weird to believe that. And the OP is on about sciencey stuff??? What about the fact that you believe in a being who watches everything you do and keeps track of it, but more, who always knew what you were going to do, knew he was going to keep track of it----and knew it 500 trillion years ago. At best he's an undetectable robot; at worst, he's a slave stuck in a thing where he can never learn anything and is doomed to watch me take a shit every morning.

(January 17, 2017 at 8:59 pm)Pulse Wrote:

(January 17, 2017 at 8:53 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: You ask many questions for a single thread.  It might work better if you pick one at a time and devote a separate thread to each.

Speaking of meaning, does your God assign your meaning to your life?  How does that work in Christianity?  How does there being a God make your life meaningful?

God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

There is no reason to think that gods, any gods, actually exist.  What you describe is wishful thinking.  It's made up nonsense that you accept for purely emotional, not intellectual reasons.  Try reality.  It matters.