(January 19, 2017 at 5:54 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Jesster Wrote: Does believing in the tooth fairy make you crazy? I don't think it does. I think it's a misinformed fantasy that even intelligent, sane people could believe. That's why I equate it to a belief in gods. I think it's right to call out tooth fairy beliefs in the same way it's right to call out god beliefs. It's the beliefs I am pointing at and not the person with the beliefs.

If society accepted it in adults, it's exactly the same thing. The only real difference is we don't teach it as fact to adults, we really probably wouldn't accept adults who believe in it.

That's kind of the point we are trying to make, right?  Look how society doesn't accept these other obviously magical beliefs in adults, and since Christianity is essentially the same sort of thinking, why does it get a pass?  

It's silly and childish, just like believing in the tooth fairy or Santa as an adult would be.  That IS the message atheists who make this comparison are trying to send!  And yes, it actually probably is a bit insulting.  As I said in my probably TL;DR post earlier, I was insulted when it was presented to me when I believed.  I don't think we are trying to be intentionally insulting, just trying to get them to see how silly it is.  It worked for me (though it took time), but I think it backfires for post people, who can't see past their own hurt feelings and emotional needs.

Let me clarify again, in case my message was lost. 

It's not the fact that Tooth Fairy belief is false, that would make me think a Tooth Fairy believer is nuts. It's the fact that the only people who believe in them, in our society, are little children. It isn't a belief that normal adult people in our society hold. In our society, it would take a pretty nutty adult to believe in the Tooth Fairy.  

If Tooth Fairy belief was a belief that normal adult people in our society held, I would see it the same exact way as I'd see Buddhism, or Islam, or Hinduism - I would see it as being false, but would not think there was anything wrong with the people who believed in them.

It's like how in our culture, spitting on someone's shoes is seen as something a weirdo would do. Why? Because it's not a normal thing to do in our society. There might be another culture out there who sees spitting on someone's shoes as a sign of respect. In that case, the person doing the spitting would not be a weirdo, he'd just be another regular person. 

Society/culture matters. In our society, it would be very strange for a grown man or a grown woman to believe in the tooth fairy. So if someone told me they did, I'd think "uhhh ok.... you're kind of a weirdo." Not because the belief is false, but because normal people in our society don't believe in that. 

So when you legitimately equate a belief like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc etc... to a belief that is only held by little kids in our society, it's very insulting to our character, our intelligence, our sanity, etc etc.

I'm not sure why we keep hearing that tooth fairy and santa clause belief makes a person crazy, but god fairies are respectable and totally not-crazy. Or why adults believing in something, somehow, makes it less crazy or more respectable, or how the numbers of people who believe in something has a similar effect? All of -that- shit sounds about as silly as fairy belief.

Are we really being to told to tone it down to spare grown children's pride and sense of privilege? How about this, instead..if fairy belief is an insult to a persons character, their intelligence, and it makes them crazy........maybe, just maybe, they should cut it out? Want respect? Get respectable beliefs.

(January 19, 2017 at 6:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'm not sure why we keep hearing that tooth fairy and santa clause belief makes a person crazy, but god fairies are respectable and totally not-crazy.

Yeah, that's what I keep trying to point out. I don't think adults who believe in santa claus or the tooth fairy are crazy. It's extremely uncommon and I think they are highly mistaken, but they are not automatically crazy for those beliefs. I think the only difference between those beliefs and the belief in a god is social acceptance. If our society allowed people to continue with their childhood beliefs unchallenged, they might even be as common.

We -do- allow people to persists in their childish beliefs, lol.  That's how we got into this god mess in the first place.

(January 19, 2017 at 6:27 pm)Khemikal Wrote: We -do- allow people to persists in their childish beliefs, lol.  That's how we got into this god mess in the first place.

I wouldn't even go as far as saying tooth fairy beliefs and santa claus beliefs are necessarily childish. That's just how society treats them. I still treat them as mistaken, but I wouldn't call an adult who believed in them a child.

You're acting as though belief in tooth fairies and santa clause in our society is a thing though. I mean, it's not even that it's an "uncommon" thing, it's not a thing at all! Lol. I mean, have you ever even met a grown adult person who believed in the Tooth Fairy, to know that it's totally possible for someone to hold that belief while being a completely normal member of society? I'm assuming not.

I mean no disrespect, but I think those saying that they would not think anything was very "off" about a grown man/woman in our society believing the tooth fairy exists, are being dishonest for the sake of keeping their argument intact.

I;ve never met a grown adult that believes in god fairies either.  Plenty of grown children in the world.  I find it endearing, others call it crazy.  Meh.

@Jess, no worries, I''ll handle that one for you...no point in coddling them, they can handle all the coddling themselves, lol.

(January 19, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(January 19, 2017 at 5:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think we may be on 2 different ships. I'm talking specifically about equating someone's beliefs to beliefs in things that would make them crazy in our society.  

You can think someone's beliefs are in error/ridiculous/false, while still not equating it to belief in the tooth fairy. Because when you do that, you are essentially calling them crazy, bc in our society, only crazy ppl believe in the tooth fairy. 

It's like my example with cheating on your spouse. You can tell someone that cheating on their spouse is wrong/ridiculous/crappy. But when you equate that act to something that only a messed up person would do, like having sex with children, then you are essentially calling them messed up. Because only messed up adults would have sex with kids.

Does believing in the tooth fairy make you crazy? I don't think it does. I think it's a misinformed fantasy that even intelligent, sane people could believe. That's why I equate it to a belief in gods. I think it's right to call out tooth fairy beliefs in the same way it's right to call out god beliefs. It's the beliefs I am pointing at and not the person with the beliefs.

Belief in a tooth fairy wouldn't make someone any crazier than belief in a dude-outside-of-space-and-time-who-made-everything-with-magic-oh-and-by-the-way-he-is-also-his-own-son-who-his-mother-gave-birth-to-when-he-impregnated-her-without-actually-having-sex-with-her-oh-and-by-the-way-when-being-his-own-son-he-can-also-walk-on-unfrozen-water-and-speaking-of-water-he-can--also-turn-water-into-wine-and-oh-by-the-way-he-can-multiply-fishes-and-yeah-another-thing-this-dude-also-comes-in-the-form-of-a-cracker-and-he-is-also-a-visible-dude-but-when-he-is-his-own-father-he-is-invisible-so-yeah-do-not-even-think-about-testing-his-actual-existence.

I'd say belief in a tooth fairy is less silly.

(January 19, 2017 at 6:32 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You're acting as though belief in tooth fairies and santa clause in our society is a thing though. I mean, it's not even that it's an "uncommon" thing, it's not a thing at all! Lol. I mean, have you ever even met a grown adult person who believed in the Tooth Fairy, to know that it's totally possible for someone to hold that belief while being a completely normal member of society? I'm assuming not.  

I mean no disrespect, but I think those saying that they would not think anything was very "off" about a grown man/woman in our society believing the tooth fairy exists, are being dishonest for the sake of keeping their argument intact.

Whether it's a thing in our society or not makes no difference to me. I'd treat it with the same level of respect if it was a thing. I'd still respect the person and their right to believe, but I would not feel the need to respect their beliefs.

How's this for you then? I could make up a new religion on the spot today. Yesterday it was not a thing. Would you respect my religion if it became a thing any more than if it was not a thing? Why or why not?

Again, it's a matter of scale and perspective. Over here in the UK, belief in gods typically isn't all that common. You can go from Land's End to John O'Groats and hardly bump into anyone who believes in any god. It's all about societal normalisation, which if it isn't a real thing bloody well oought to be, now that I've gone to the trouble of typing it. If toothfairyism had spread at swordpoint over the western world, the way the Abrahamic religions did, you'd most likely have been brought up in the faith and would be saying the exact same things now.