I have heard the argument that violence in Islam is only prescribed in self defense and that any verse that condones violence is doing so in the context of an ongoing attack started by someone else.

Thoughts ?

violence is violence irrespective of context, especially when we are talking about an all-powerful being who should be quite capable of resolving things non-violently

Some of the verses are about self defense, sure. Others are about killing unbelievers in war. I don't think it specifies that they can't start the war, which is what the extremists tend to love doing.

So where in the koran are the instructions for making a car bomb?

Islam, like Christianity, was spread and enforced by the sword. First from tribe to tribe and then from nation to nation.

Anyone who denies that is just being dishonest with themselves

(January 25, 2017 at 6:48 pm)momo666 Wrote: I have heard the argument that violence in Islam is only prescribed in self defense and that any verse that condones violence is doing so in the context of an ongoing attack started by someone else.

Thoughts ?

Regardless of wether the topic is violence or not this is a commonly repeated thing.  Where you point something out about the quran and get told you're ignoring some type of context.

There's a book that's obviously from god because it contains everything we all need to know as human beings.  It's in another language though.  And obviously it comes with some additional quotes by the messenger who happened to pass on the book.  And it is absense of some context. 

I mean some chapters are entirely about personal quarells the messenger of the book had with people, which is a bit weird, I'm sure when you read an educational book these days the publishers don't tend to add their own personal disagreements with their next door neighbours and family members.

So yeh it's the book from god that contains everything except context, understandable language, and usually requires some additional instructions to be followed correctly.

I don't know islam/muslim/quran that well. I did find this. Seems like a lot on non self defensive violence.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/qu.../long.html

(January 25, 2017 at 8:48 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I don't know islam/muslim/quran that well. I did find this. Seems like a lot on non self defensive violence.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/qu.../long.html

How do any of those curses really differ from what Jesus said in John 15:6 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...V;NKJV;KJV

(January 25, 2017 at 10:42 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(January 25, 2017 at 8:48 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I don't know islam/muslim/quran that well. I did find this. Seems like a lot on non self defensive violence.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/qu.../long.html

How do any of those curses really differ from what Jesus said in John 15:6 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...V;NKJV;KJV

Not saying better, worse, equal or different. Just saying they exist. I'll let you judge.

(January 26, 2017 at 9:04 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(January 25, 2017 at 10:42 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: How do any of those curses really differ from what Jesus said in John 15:6 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...V;NKJV;KJV

Not saying better, worse, equal or different. Just saying they exist. I'll let you judge.

When you compare the Koran, the Bible, and the Jewish Babylonian Talmud you will see that the Koran is the least toxic, the Bible is more toxic, and the Talmud is the most toxic.

It's like having a choice between getting bitten in the neck by an Eastern diamondback rattlesnake, a Philippine Cobra, or an Inland Taipan snake.  All three will kill you but the Inland Taipan (Talmud) is the most toxic although it's not that aggressive.