I went to Vegas by myself recently. Went to a friend's house (she lives there) for a party and thought the road trip by myself would be therapeutic. It's a nice five hour drive. The day before I left, I was feeling nervous. I made an irresponsible statement (being surrounded by fundie catholics), "I have a bad feeling about this trip."
Coworker: Ivy! Don't go! God is telling you something!

So, I go.
On my way back, I hit something in the very dark road. Couldn't see a thing. I hit the break (stupidly) and entered a watery patch that sent my car spinning out of control. I ended up crashing into a huge pile of dirt (luckily).

Monday back at work with neck thingy, since I hurt my neck.

Coworker (more or less): God tried to warn you! Do you believe now? Do you?!
Me (more or less): Yes. I believe I knew I had bad tires. I knew that particular road gets pitch dark after six and I lose signal for two hours. I believe I knew the people at that party get pretty rowdy, yet I'm an introvert. I believe I knew before I left that I can't sleep in other people's houses, so I'd be tired on my drive back. I believe I had plenty other reasons to be logically worried about the trip, and when my worries were proven sane, I learned to make a better plan next time I drive alone.
Coworker (more or less): You hard headed fool. If THAT didn't convince you, nothing will.

When you WANT to believe, you find reasons to believe. Stuff happens and you might leave out facts (like me knowing that I had bad tires) to make it sound legitimate. Doesn't mean shit.

Perhaps this example has nothing to do with this, but I've been dying to use it and now is a good time as ever!  

(January 25, 2017 at 10:03 pm)Mamacita Wrote: I went to Vegas by myself recently. Went to a friend's house (she lives there) for a party and thought the road trip by myself would be therapeutic. It's a nice five hour drive. The day before I left, I was feeling nervous. I made an irresponsible statement (being surrounded by fundie catholics), "I have a bad feeling about this trip."
Coworker: Ivy! Don't go! God is telling you something!

So, I go.
On my way back, I hit something in the very dark road. Couldn't see a thing. I hit the break (stupidly) and entered a watery patch that sent my car spinning out of control. I ended up crashing into a huge pile of dirt (luckily).

Monday back at work with neck thingy, since I hurt my neck.

Coworker (more or less): God tried to warn you! Do you believe now? Do you?!
Me (more or less): Yes. I believe I knew I had bad tires. I knew that particular road gets pitch dark after six and I lose signal for two hours. I believe I knew the people at that party get pretty rowdy, yet I'm an introvert. I believe I knew before I left that I can't sleep in other people's houses, so I'd be tired on my drive back. I believe I had plenty other reasons to be logically worried about the trip, and when my worries were proven sane, I learned to make a better plan next time I drive alone.
Coworker (more or less): You hard headed fool. If THAT didn't convince you, nothing will.

When you WANT to believe, you find reasons to believe. Stuff happens and you might leave out facts (like me knowing that I had bad tires) to make it sound legitimate. Doesn't mean shit.

Perhaps this example has nothing to do with this, but I've been dying to use it and now is a good time as ever!  

Holy crap.

Everything okay? 

Ask your co worker if god was talking to the Star Wars cast every time they say, "I have a bad feeling about this!"

(January 25, 2017 at 10:07 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Holy crap.

Everything okay? 

Ask your co worker if god was talking to the Star Wars cast every time they say, "I have a bad feeling about this!"

Yes, I'm fine. Thanks  
This was a couple weeks ago. Back still hurts, car bumper's loose, but all in all I'm good!  

(January 25, 2017 at 10:13 pm)Mamacita Wrote:

(January 25, 2017 at 10:07 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Holy crap.

Everything okay? 

Ask your co worker if god was talking to the Star Wars cast every time they say, "I have a bad feeling about this!"

Yes, I'm fine. Thanks  
This was a couple weeks ago. Back still hurts, car bumper's loose, but all in all I'm good!  

I'll pray for you.

(January 25, 2017 at 12:50 am)arda101 Wrote: I wanted to know what you think about OBEs. There have been a few cases that seem difficult to debunk. 
Dr. Peter Fenwick has delt with thousands of OBEs in Near Death and says that patients sometimes have been able to "float" to another room and get information of what other people behind closed doors said. Then, they verify it.
One man was floating above his body, found a baby crying in another room. He was apparently able to talk to the baby, found out the baby had a broken arm. Then, when he was revived, he checked with doctors, and it turned out the baby's limb was broken.
Here is a video which claims there is life after death:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeM4m_4dWeA

How can so many people accurately describe what occurs when they have a dying brain or a brain that is dead? It seems like a poorly functioning brain cannot do this. Do you think that these examples I provide, albeit anecdotal, potentially prove a soul exists?
How did Dr. Fenwick find so many cases if they are just coincidences?

Was this verified by anyone NOT biased towards faith? Was he questioned about his experience without anyone tipping him off or leading him to get him to where he might have answered vaguely enough but with enough hints that he could have guessed right and that been passed off as a legitimate answer? Did he forget about having perhaps seen the infant (or other nearby entities or events) and his memory of it was from BEFORE going into the NDE coma? Or perhaps his unconscious body hearing others talking about it triggered the images and sounds that his brain interpreted as an NDE hallucination?

What would impress me is if they were able to describe a plausible realm beyond the physical or do a remote viewing from way farther away than in the same damn hallway of the hospital.

So not only is the circumstance in which this is being reported already massively suspect, there are craploads of easy explanations that don't require Occam's Razor to get too bloody.

The thing about this stuff is it's always described after the fact. They've done experiments putting cards on top of dressers and making OBE people tell them what's on the card-- it's an epic fail. It's much more plausible that the doctor had a general feeling of unease, then found and treated the baby, then mapped more detail onto the original feeling than he actual experienced. False memory really is a bugger-- and we all do it.

I was admitting a patient from the ICU to the rehab unit. This involves a physical assessment and a lot of questions. He started telling me about his NDE . I pretended not to hear him and went on to the next question. That is what I think of NDE \ OBE.

Years ago I recounted an experience of mine, when I gashed my hand on a corned beef tin and the loss of blood sent me into shock, causing me to collapse unconscious. I have no memory between the gash and coming round on the floor - if I'd died, nothing of my life would have meant anything to me anymore, it was all gone. There was no floating around the room, no tunnel, no mystical light, no voice telling me to go back, just nothing. Not even blackness.

What's the theistic explanation for that?

Sorry, wrong thread.

(January 25, 2017 at 12:50 am)arda101 Wrote: I wanted to know what you think about OBEs.

Good drugs, oxygen deprivation, chemical imbalances in the brain or any of these three in combination.

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(January 25, 2017 at 12:50 am)arda101 Wrote: How can so many people accurately describe what occurs when they have a dying brain or a brain that is dead?

(emphasis is mine)

No one has ever been able to report anything after their brain has died. Brain death is not something you get better from.