Started this thread because I'm interested in that other thread, but I haven't seen the movie and there's a spoiler warning.

I want to see it! I've only heard good things and the premise is interesting. Not that it'll make me not see it, but can somebody give me a spoiler-free break down of how it's pro-life propaganda? If not, don't even try. I hate spoilers.

Side note: Propaganda sounds like Papa Panda, so I googled Nazi Papa Panda and found too much stuff to post.

The mom chooses life for her daughter. Apparently that's offensive to some ppl.

Well, without seeing it, the important thing is she had a choice. Thanks C_L!

(February 6, 2017 at 9:11 am)Exian Wrote: Well, without seeing it, the important thing is she had a choice.[...]

She didn't, really. The premise of the movie relies heavily on the universe being a deterministic one. 
And yes - the whole daughter plot can be seen as pro-life message and also seems to have sweet f*ck-all to do with the main  story. But it would be difficult to explain without some spoilers.

I gotcha. I'll have to see it, but from what you're saying it seems less pro-life, and more anti-free will (nah, you wouldn't word it that way "I take a stance against free-will", you know what I mean though). In which case, the choice is already made, and that goes for abortions when they happen as well.

(February 6, 2017 at 11:34 am)Exian Wrote: I gotcha. I'll have to see it, but from what you're saying it seems less pro-life, and more anti-free will (nah, you wouldn't word it that way "I take a stance against free-will", you know what I mean though). In which case, the choice is already made, and that goes for abortions when they happen as well.

No, it's pretty "pro-life", partly because of how the story is structured and how it emphasizes the - fairly irrelevant, or at least easily replaceable - daughter plot and the associated drama. Sure - it was there mainly to add human interest to the sci-fi movie, but it didn't necessarily need to be what it was. 

Basically - it seems to me, that the creators want you to leave the cinema thinking that "life is precious" and that one must accept their lot in life, regardless of circumstances. It's not really heavy-handed and the message itself can be seen as positive, but I could have done without it. Instead of the child - the women could have had a kitten, or a wise-cracking robot, or something...

I think it was pro-choice, because the mom decided to have the kid despite the inevitable early death. Nowhere does it say that abortion is a bad thing. Some viewers will have noticed that part.

I don't think it's pro-life in the anti-abortion sense that many people seem to take the meaning of that term. Even the sites that are claiming it as "pro-life" compare it to people who chose to have children they know will die....but in all real life instances, those children die within hours or days of birth, not years or decades. So it's not even comparable with that.

I do think it's either deterministic, or pro-choice, depending on if you think she chose it, or was already pre-determined to have that experience. After all, there would have been a time paradox of where she got all the info that helped her solve the language puzzle in the first place if she didn't go on to have those experiences, so I think it's deterministic.

I hope that's spoiler free. Just go see the movie, and decide for yourself! lol.

Morally speaking I'm an antinatalist... but I think that some things are more important than morality and parents deserve to have children. YOLO and all that jazz.

This may seem like the most contradictory and irrational and controversial thing you've ever read from me. But it's the way I am.

I think my parents committed an immoral act by giving birth to me but I'm glad they did and I think they had a right to do so. Also I think morality is overated. So what if they commited an extremely mildly immoral act in my opinion? (Merely because I think that there's a great asymmetry between pleasure and pain). Their wanting to have a child was more important. Yes I have strange views lol. Don't look at me. Lol. I'm drunk but the alcohol isn't an excuse for how I am lol.

What do you have against parents?

ETA:You added more to your post and it took the punch from my joke, and seeing as you're drunk, I need to clarify this was a classic "I'm misunderstanding you" joke, so we don't end up fighting.