Tailoring the truth to fit the easily triggered feelers of bigots is pointless, Violet. We could, for example, tell people that they have a slight abnormality that may one day inconvenience them....or, just call it for what it is - cancer. Sure, one may be easier to swallow and the other send them into spiralling denial...but what those people do with the information presented is...frankly....their own damned problem. We do no one favors by polishing turds until they gleam in a pleasing fashion.

As examples, the things you see as small and petty have an immense - actual- effect on our country. That the highest elected official we have is known to be petty and deceitful with regards to even the tiniest of things, in and of itself, is damaging. That he would suggest and sign an order, even if it's blocked...is damaging. That people publicly or openly agree, even if it's not quite a majority but still close......is damaging.......

The best case scenario of this administration is that a non-trivial portion of americans -want- a trumpenfuhrer, and a significant number of our elected officials will allow it if it benefits them....even if we never get one.

(February 6, 2017 at 1:48 pm)Violet Wrote: Instead, I have 8 news sites telling me how this means that he's a fascist and is the second coming of Hitler Hussein Satan.

I defy you to find one actual news site saying anything of the sort. What you had was people being reasonably afraid that the man sent his Press Secretary out to the podium to say "That was the largest crowd to ever witness a presidential inauguration. Period."

There is a good amount of editorializing to be done about that kind of statement and the precedent it sets on Day One.

(February 6, 2017 at 1:48 pm)Violet Wrote: Important: Perception and presentation account for a great deal in this world. They affect how a person reacts to what is said. When the media uptrumps all kinds of bad polling data and treats it as anything more than a prediction, or, present it in a terribly one-sided light: it has the effect of generating disgust and distrust towards what was said.

I agree. Perception is, in many people's world, their reality. But it doesn't change the polling data. The president's response to bad polling data should be to question why the polling data is bad and maybe alter his decision making in order to make the people in the country he leads approve of what he is doing, not to a priori dismiss any data that goes against the narrative that he wants to push.

For someone so wrapped up in perception, you are remarkably quick to dismiss the perception of the majority of the people in America. Because it doesn't fit your reality, I would guess.

(February 6, 2017 at 1:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Tailoring the truth to fit the easily triggered feelers of bigots is pointless, Violet.  We could, for example, tell people that they have a slight abnormality that may one day inconvenience them....or, just call it for what it is - cancer.  Sure, one may be easier to swallow and the other send them into spiralling denial...but what those people do with the information presented is...frankly....their own damned problem.  We do no one favors by polishing turds until they gleam in a pleasing fashion.

As examples, the things you see as small and petty have an immense - actual- effect on our country.  That the highest elected official we have is known to be petty and deceitful with regards to even the tiniest of things, in and of itself, is damaging.

It is really simply a small and petty and false claim by a largely successful man... and it is one that has literally zero effect on anything. May as well a butterfly have flapped her wings, but for the hurricanes she brings. The fact that the children are screaming doesn't mean that the sky is falling, and shit stinks as ever shit has.

Trump ain't perfect. But it would be just as farcical to say that he has not done great things, and it would be outright irresponsible to say that people have not overreacted to his presence.

(February 6, 2017 at 9:59 am)Aegon Wrote: Jesus dude. Could you be any more transparent in your gaslighting?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...0800539648

Quote:Any negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting.

This according to Wikipedia entry on gaslighting:

Quote:Sociopaths and narcissists frequently use gaslighting tactics.

As we all know, Trump is pathologically narcissistic so this is comes as absolutely no surprise.

(February 6, 2017 at 2:07 pm)Violet Wrote:

(February 6, 2017 at 1:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Tailoring the truth to fit the easily triggered feelers of bigots is pointless, Violet.  We could, for example, tell people that they have a slight abnormality that may one day inconvenience them....or, just call it for what it is - cancer.  Sure, one may be easier to swallow and the other send them into spiralling denial...but what those people do with the information presented is...frankly....their own damned problem.  We do no one favors by polishing turds until they gleam in a pleasing fashion.

As examples, the things you see as small and petty have an immense - actual- effect on our country.  That the highest elected official we have is known to be petty and deceitful with regards to even the tiniest of things, in and of itself, is damaging.

It is really simply a small and petty and false claim by a largely successful man... and it is one that has literally zero effect on anything. May as well a butterfly have flapped her wings, but for the hurricanes she brings. The fact that the children are screaming doesn't mean that the sky is falling, and shit stinks as ever shit has.

Trump ain't perfect. But it would be just as farcical to say that he has not done great things, and it would be outright irresponsible to say that people have not overreacted to his presence.

Your definition of "successful" and "Done great things" leave a lot to be desired in my opinion. He used his daddy's money to make a bunch of money. He and Paris Hilton will have a lot in common once her father kicks the bucket.

Done great things.....

(February 6, 2017 at 11:35 am)CanOfMountainDew Wrote:

(February 6, 2017 at 11:28 am)Aegon Wrote: Uh yeah, sort of. Gaslighting is a term in the poli sci community to describe the way populist leaders try to totally discredit the media so that the people get their information directly from the leader.

What is he supposed to do - tell everyone that the media that hates him is justified in hating him lol? The media seeks to discredit him and so he will seek to discredit them. Makes sense to me. I mean he could just go full dictator and ban all media that isn't government

And in the UK he is close to being banned from Parliament for his racist views.

This is by the speaker of the house of commons, not a biased media outlet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38884604

I fully expect Trump to go "full dictator".

Oh, hai Sae. Long time no see. I am sorry, but your place has been taken. The weirdest member award.

(February 6, 2017 at 2:07 pm)Violet Wrote: It is really simply a small and petty and false claim by a largely successful man...

it is, yeah.

Quote:and it is one that has literally zero effect on anything.

but this...is demonstrably untrue...it does have an effect.

Quote:May as well a butterfly have flapped her wings, but for the hurricanes she brings. The fact that the children are screaming doesn't mean that the sky is falling, and shit stinks as ever shit has.

The sky has -fallen-, not falling, fallen.  The damage is done.  

Quote:Trump ain't perfect. But it would be just as farcical to say that he has not done great things,

wait....what?  What great things has he done?  He's an underachiever.

Quote:and it would be outright irresponsible to say that people have not overreacted to his presence.

Overreacted?  To what, examples?

(February 6, 2017 at 11:35 am)CanOfMountainDew Wrote:

(February 6, 2017 at 11:28 am)Aegon Wrote: Uh yeah, sort of. Gaslighting is a term in the poli sci community to describe the way populist leaders try to totally discredit the media so that the people get their information directly from the leader.

What is he supposed to do - tell everyone that the media that hates him is justified in hating him lol? The media seeks to discredit him and so he will seek to discredit them. Makes sense to me. I mean he could just go full dictator and ban all media that isn't government

The Media has not discredited him he has discredited himself. Don't shoot the messenger shoot the moron who keeps doing stupid shit  that discredits him.

Also, Violet, send me a voip address in pm, miss you. Smooches