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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:56 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 6, 2017 at 4:51 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I mean the fact that.... think of the suffering in the world. Is the happiness in the world worth that? No fucking way. Says who? Says you....seems to me that most folks choose pain over nonexistence. -and, ofc...you say this from an unchalleneged pov of someone who exists......so.....forgive me for my suspsicions...
If morality has to due with some fantasy idea of never having to go through a little discomfort, of a universal free lunch...... well...what a worthless idea.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 5:14 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Really? You think that it's worth it? I don't care who says it.
Would anyone choose the worst possible torture and pain and there absolute nightmare so that they could experience happiness? Or is nonexistence preferable? If they thought it was a good idea... after choosing it and screaming in the worst possible nightmare... do you think they might perhaps regret their foolish choice?
Is starving children worth the smiles of rich healthy happy people? I think not.
But it doesn't matter. The vast majority of people disagree with me and I'm too selfish in practice to even follow my own advice 
If I decide I want to be a parent and I find someone who wants to have a kid with me and I want to have one with them... I'll go for it. I don't care if it's 1% immoral in my philosophical view. The child will get plenty of happiness even if one minute of toothache outweighs all their smiles
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:19 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 5:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 6, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Would anyone choose the worst possible torture and pain and there absolute nightmare so that they could experience happiness? Who chooses that, and for what...is that you experience of life...personally?
Quote:Or is nonexistence preferable? If they thought it was a good idea... after choosing it and screaming in the worst possible nightmare... do you think they might perhaps regret their foolish choice?
You;d have to ask the survivors, eh?
Quote:Is starving children worth the smiles of rich healthy happy people? I think not.
Are rich happy people the only other quantity to consider? Why not juxtapose starving children against dead children? Are you a rich happy person..starving children?
Quote:
But it doesn't matter. The vast majority of people disagree with me and I'm too selfish in practice to even follow my own advice
What advice....?
Quote:If I decide I want to be a parent and I find someone who wants to have a kid with me and I want to have one with them... I'll go for it. I don't care if it's 1% immoral in my philosophical view. The child will get plenty of happiness even if one minute of toothache outweighs all their smiles
Does it, though...did it, for you? Is there some toothache in your past that mooted all happiness? Some toothache that you would trade, for all of the good things...had you not had to deal with that..you'd give the rest up?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:23 pm
I love your questions. Also if I am explaining myself poorly I apologize. I am somewhat of a lightweight when it comes to alcohol and I am drunk as fuck. Please bear with me while I get back to you
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:29 pm
It never occurred to me that people posted here sober. 
Swilling bourbon myself....wondering where the malthusian urge finds it's point of origin.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:30 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 5:30 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(February 6, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Who chooses that, and for what...is that you experience of life...personally?
Well I was trying to make a point. Ultimately morality is not about what people would choose it's about what they should choose. But people can only choose what they would choose regardless of if they should hence why morality is overrated.
Quote:You;d have to ask the survivors, eh?
Nah the question is: Are they right?
Quote:What advice....?
I used the wrong word there. I'm too selfish to follow what I think is technically moral.
Quote:Does it, though...did it, for you? Is there some toothache in your past that mooted all happiness? Some toothache that you would trade, for all of the good things...had you not had to deal with that..you'd give the rest up?
Well... I would desire happiness in spite of toothache but I'd be wrong to desire it in spite of toothache.
That is... unless I'm not suffering during the toothache.
If I'm in pain but still otherwise happy that doesn't really count. But pain that is so bad that it makes me unhappy=suffering=not worth any amount of happiness.
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 5:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 6, 2017 at 5:30 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Well I was trying to make a point. Ultimately morality is not about what people would choose it's about what they should choose. But people can only choose what they would choose regardless of if they should hence why morality is overrate. Okay...but....that might be inconvenient in light of some of the rest of this......?
Quote:Nah the question is: Are they right?
Good question, are they....and what empowers you to make that determination...or to doubt their own conclusions?
Quote:Well... I would desire happiness in spite of toothache but I'd be wrong to desire it in spite of toothache.
Why?
Quote:That is... unless I'm not suffering during the toothache.
Intresting, why does that change the dynamic...and does than then lead to the notiopn that pople with good dental care are somehow "more moral" or "less immoral" or more strongly amoral...by virtue of having better dental care (and hygiene) with respect to life and suffering and the relative value or asymmetry of either?
Quote:If I'm in pain but still otherwise happy that doesn't really count.
You think? So why then would....-
Quote:But pain that is so bad that it makes me unhappy=suffering=not worth any amount of happiness.
-count...and for what? Personally, I'll burn today for a buzz tomorrow......what's the problem? I mean...almost everything I have that's worth having came on the back of considerable and prolonged suffering....it;s not exactly like we're giving the good shit away for free, Ham....?
Bankruptcy...everyone should do it.
Divorce, I recommend it.
Heartbreak...well, you only live once.
Hunger - it gives you perspective.
Homelessness is another word for unexpected freedom.
Physical trauma...how better to realize that you're alive?
I could go on and on....but..tell me why I, like "they" above, may be wrong for seeing...in all of lifes little speedbumps, reasons to seek and be happy ? The short version, ofc, being "show us on the doll where life touched you".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:38 pm
That's because the burning is not painful enough for you to think the buzz isn't worth it.
When it is painful enough to not be worth it... it's painful enough to not be worth it. And that's suffering.
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 5:46 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 5:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, sure, you could imagine that someone doesn;t know suffering..but that would be your unkind and immoral imagination...wouldn;t it? Far more difficult to respond to would be to acknowledge that others have suffered and still see life as a net gain..either nominally or..in my case, overwhelmingly.
Which way do you want to take this...comparing scars...or...?
Do you suffer, so, Ham, have you suffered so? Care to share?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 6:12 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 6:16 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Lol I don't see the relevance.
Anyway at the end of the day my argument is only as good as my explanatory skills and my explanatory skills are very poor.
P.S.
(February 6, 2017 at 5:46 pm)Khemikal Wrote: your unkind and immoral imagination
There's no such thing as an immoral imagination.
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