(July 5, 2011 at 2:47 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:

(July 5, 2011 at 1:14 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: If we're going to eat meat we should make the practice as humane as possible.

If we want our meat as humane as it gets... why don't we eat humans?

QFT

(July 5, 2011 at 2:47 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Rights, rights, rights, rights, rights, rights...

My gods I wish people would shut up about them. Oh that sense of entitlement... that really does get on my nerves.

Just because morals are valueless to you Sae doesn't mean they are to other people.


As for the rest of this, I think Rhythm and Faith have hit the nail on the head a couple of times.

Laws as has been said before, are often very hypocritical, that doesn't make it right however to have rules for some and not for others, for frankly ridiculous reasoning.

(July 5, 2011 at 12:57 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Halal is barbaric.
The wiki article I quoted itself, gave sources and quotes from reputable people in the fields of medicine, science and animal welfare, that slitting the throat of an animal and letting it bleed out for up to 2 minutes in excruciating pain is NOT humane. It is NOT on a level par with stunning an animal first. Don't even go there. It's an argument which has been disproven already by people with far much more expertise than you and I.

This doesn't mean that what you saw in the wiki article is correct. As it happens in many studies in the field of science, you'll see that there are scientists who come up with different and even contrary results. You have to decide for yourself which is more sound and reasonable. For example, Dr. Temple Grandin, an animal scientist from Colorado, has done a tremendous amount of research on the subject of animal slaughtering and suffering. Here's a study of hers and I think it's well worth the read (or a brief glance at least):

Religious Slaughter and Animal Welfare: A Discussion for Meat Scientists

Quote from the Article:


Also, here's a lecture by her on humane animal slaughter (Part 1): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoNErsJNPzw

(July 5, 2011 at 1:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Just saying a word before killing is as meaningless as it gets in my book. Talk about religious in words only.

Of course ...

It's not only the words that matter, but especially the faith and intention in our hearts - and the two are not necessarily exclusive - we have to say the words and know the reason for saying them at the same time.

(July 5, 2011 at 1:46 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Its a question of suffering. A shot to the head is less painfull than a slit throat.

The suffering of the animal ends very quickly and it doesn't matter once it is killed and eaten. As I said before, we do this as a sacrifice, and we believe that there is a greater blessing in the food when God's name is mentioned upon the slaughtering.

(July 5, 2011 at 3:35 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: I don't disagree here either. I don't like the fact that most animals are raised in terrible environments and that should be illegal too. I'm not going to dedicate my life to ending it like I won't dedicate my life to ending Halal, but when given the opportunity to voice my opinion on the subjects, I will.

Then stop ranting on about Halal, and argue your actual point

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(July 5, 2011 at 4:09 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(July 5, 2011 at 2:47 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Rights, rights, rights, rights, rights, rights...

My gods I wish people would shut up about them. Oh that sense of entitlement... that really does get on my nerves.

Just because morals are valueless to you Sae doesn't mean they are to other people.

Morals aren't valueless to me. But your morals are mostly so.

This isn't about them though. This is about "It's my right to have babies", "It's her right to eat spaghetti", "It's a god's right to decide fate". Bullshit, and that's what my irritation over 'rights' is about.

Quote:As for the rest of this, I think Rhythm and Faith have hit the nail on the head a couple of times.

Laws as has been said before, are often very hypocritical, that doesn't make it right however to have rules for some and not for others, for frankly ridiculous reasoning.

Existence isn't 'right'... it's confusing and it's always going to bite you in the ass somehow someway. It is ridiculous in all facets. One can embrace that as I do, deny it as many do, or sing kumbaya until Sol goes nova.

(July 5, 2011 at 5:18 pm)Rayaan Wrote: You have to decide for yourself which is more sound and reasonable.

Absolutely. And I've decided that halal is most definitely barbaric and unnecessary.

(July 5, 2011 at 5:23 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Morals aren't valueless to me. But your morals are mostly so.

This isn't about them though. This is about "It's my right to have babies", "It's her right to eat spaghetti", "It's a god's right to decide fate". Bullshit, and that's what my irritation over 'rights' is about.

What we percieve as 'rights' are largely based on our moral codes. Rights in society are granted by law and legislation whether you agree with that or not. If you want to live by your own rights, wrongs, morals, whatever, that's fine. As long as you don't break the law ofcourse, then you're gonna get fucked.
In essence an animal, humans and whatever else has rights because the LAW says so. So why is halal allowed when it is in direct contradiction with these laws? Because of religious rights?
You may disagree but I think the 'rights' of a living being are more important than the practices of some fucked up cult.

Quote:Existence isn't 'right'... it's confusing and it's always going to bite you in the ass somehow someway. It is ridiculous in all facets. One can embrace that as I do, deny it as many do, or sing kumbaya until Sol goes nova.

Ignoratio elenchi - irrelevant conclusion

(July 5, 2011 at 6:23 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Absolutely. And I've decided that halal is most definitely barbaric and unnecessary.

Okey dokey artichokey.

Napoleon Wrote:What we percieve as 'rights' are largely based on our moral codes. Rights in society are granted by law and legislation whether you agree with that or not. If you want to live by your own rights, wrongs, morals, whatever, that's fine. As long as you don't break the law ofcourse, then you're gonna get fucked.

I have one of the best moral codes in the world, and yet I know of nothing to which I am entitled. Regardless: I shall take what I consider myself worthy of possessing.

Rights in society are not granted by law and legislation.

I do live by my own morals (what the hell are my own rights and wrongs?). Sometimes this is not legal.

Infact going with the legal course happens to have not only fucked me over more, but to be fucking me over as we speak.

Quote:Ignoratio elenchi - irrelevant conclusion

Seemingly to you. You give me a nonsensical statement: I give you a sensical answer.

If they would allow all processors to claim halal and forgo the investment in equipment, and inspections to that effect, then I would have no problem with it whatsoever.

Here's a video of the animal sacrifice (which is called "Qurbani"):



First, they tie the cow's legs with a rope, then they drop it on it's side, then Muslims get on top of the cow (to hold it in place), and then comes the slaughtering with a knife.

Something tells me people will be offended. Can I post a video of me hitting a deer in the head with the stock of my rifle? It was a clean hit.

Fuck man that one had some life in it didn't it. lol.