(July 6, 2011 at 5:32 pm)Skipper Wrote: Just because it happens every day in Muslim countries it doesn't make it any less brutal.

It's brutal indeed, in a physical sense, but not necessarily unethical.

Even people busting each other's eyes and noses in boxing and UFC wrestling is brutal - but the game itself is not unethical nor condemned by Americans - it's perfectly fair and legal to make each other bleed in the face.

(July 6, 2011 at 5:32 pm)Skipper Wrote: Is there anything in Islam you disagree with mate? Because literally everything I hate about Islam, you have some sort of justification or excuse ready for. You seem to be able to equate anything as right purely based on it being Islamic or not. Fucking think for yourself! That's why Allah gave you a brain.

1. I do think for myself. No one else can think for me other than myself.

2. As a Muslim, I don't disagree with the actual teachings of Islam although I'm not sure if my own views are always correct, and I do disagree with the views of certain Muslims.

(July 6, 2011 at 5:47 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: So in Islam this kind of sacrifice get you closer to God?

Yes, but the main effect is that it "halalifies" the meat for the Muslims.

Also, the meat can be distributed to poor and sick people as a means of charity (Zakaat), which is another way of coming closer to God because all good deeds will have same effect.

(July 6, 2011 at 5:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You could have posted a video of it being done on the slaughterhouse floor, you know..instead of in the dirt..lol. Would have gone a long way, though I still don't see many people appreciating it.

Yeah, I could've done that. But the one that I posted seems to be a bigger and stronger cow (so I preferred that one). And the other videos were longer.

Actually Rayaan, America has voiced a significant amount of opposition to the UFC, it's widely considered to be barbaric. I'm with you though, I love it.

(July 6, 2011 at 2:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Something tells me people will be offended. Can I post a video of me hitting a deer in the head with the stock of my rifle? It was a clean hit.

Yes. And they don't have any sort of right to not be offended.

Quote:Fuck man that one had some life in it didn't it. lol.

Not really.

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(July 6, 2011 at 7:56 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Actually Rayaan, America has voiced a significant amount of opposition to the UFC, it's widely considered to be barbaric. I'm with you though, I love it.

Fuck anyone that can't stand people enjoying a little bit of violence. I'd say shoot them normally.

(July 6, 2011 at 7:53 pm)Rayaan Wrote: Even people busting each other's eyes and noses in boxing and UFC wrestling is brutal - but the game itself is not unethical nor condemned by Americans - it's perfectly fair and legal to make each other bleed in the face.

Comparing sawing an animal's neck while it's being held down to two grown men who willingly step into a ring to pound on each other with their fists has to be one of the most disingenuous things I have ever read.

(July 7, 2011 at 2:58 am)FaithNoMore Wrote: Comparing sawing an animal's neck while it's being held down to two grown men who willingly step into a ring to pound on each other with their fists has to be one of the most disingenuous things I have ever read.

Is it so difficult for you to grasp that the universe is brutal... that the chaos does not have your moral code over what petty thing is 'right' after your morning cereal? Does it confuse you that pain is usually felt when dying... that no matter what the journey passed through: it all leads to the same end? Is it really so insincere to hold an understanding of the world that does not coincide with your own... one so different that you cannot accept that it well be their reality?

Some of us infact do hold the belief that sawing off an animal's neck <whatever nonsense> really is quite comparable to 2 animals stepping into an arena and beating each other to a pulp. Reinvent your understanding of sincerity in what others say, as it is not subject to your opinion.

(July 7, 2011 at 3:27 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Is it so difficult for you to grasp that the universe is brutal... that the chaos does not have your moral code over what petty thing is 'right' after your morning cereal? Does it confuse you that pain is usually felt when dying... that no matter what the journey passed through: it all leads to the same end? Is it really so insincere to hold an understanding of the world that does not coincide with your own... one so different that you cannot accept that it well be their reality?

Actually, I have no problem with the universe being brutal, it's the unnecessary brutality we add to it that I don't like. Yes, pain is usually felt when dying, but when we are able to lessen that pain, we should. Some of us in the human race, unlike morally apathetic people like yourself, want to lessen the suffering in the world whenever possible, not just sit back and marvel at it.

Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:Some of us infact do hold the belief that sawing off an animal's neck <whatever nonsense> really is quite comparable to 2 animals stepping into an arena and beating each other to a pulp. Reinvent your understanding of sincerity in what others say, as it is not subject to your opinion.

An animal being held down and slowly slaughter is not even in the same realm as two animals who willfully get into the ring. In UFC, a conscious decision is made by the fighters and they have a choice to be there, where as the animal being slaughtered has no say in the matter. All violence is not equal, regardless of your opinion.

(July 7, 2011 at 3:40 am)FaithNoMore Wrote: An animal being held down and slowly slaughter is not even in the same realm as two animals who willfully get into the ring. In UFC, a conscious decision is made by the fighters and they have a choice to be there, where as the animal being slaughtered has no say in the matter. All violence is not equal, regardless of your opinion.

Yeah, but their both brutal except for having different reasons.

The first one is for food while the other one is only a sport and the fighters are doing it for money. Also, their pain lasts longer than a cow being slaughtered. (Edit: I"m not saying that neither is a bad thing).

Rayaan, Halal isn't brutal for food...it's brutal for god. There's a not-so-subtle difference.

Sae, I'm with you, shoot em....or maybe saw their heads off with a drywall knife.

Faithnomore Wrote:Actually, I have no problem with the universe being brutal, it's the unnecessary brutality we add to it that I don't like. Yes, pain is usually felt when dying, but when we are able to lessen that pain, we should. Some of us in the human race, unlike morally apathetic people like yourself, want to lessen the suffering in the world whenever possible, not just sit back and marvel at it.

And what is necessary? One cannot require a thing without first a goal.

Why should we lessen pain? I happen to greatly appreciate it.

Why do you want to lessen something that is not bad? Painlessness is horrible.

Quote:An animal being held down and slowly slaughter is not even in the same realm as two animals who willfully get into the ring. In UFC, a conscious decision is made by the fighters and they have a choice to be there, where as the animal being slaughtered has no say in the matter. All violence is not equal, regardless of your opinion.

Hence 'comparable' was used and not 'equal'. A mountain and hill accomplish a similar thing: they are comparable.

My own understanding of this is that none of the animals referenced here have any control over what is being done. The battling animals do so because it is what they do... they know not else. The butcher does so because it is what they do... they know not else. Regardless of the 'brutal depravity' of their actions (as if this was brutal... try a Mauler Device if you want brutality)... I am not blind to what causes their actions. And so I am unconcerned with the end result of what was done. It was done, it's in the past, it's no longer an issue. It is the reason(s) for doing a thing that interest me.

Blessing food for the eyes of your peers and fierce battle for the eyes of your peers is very comparable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUX0y4EptA

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(July 7, 2011 at 8:12 am)Rhythm Wrote: Rayaan, Halal isn't brutal for food...it's brutal for god. There's a not-so-subtle difference.

Sae, I'm with you, shoot em....or maybe saw their heads off with a drywall knife.

Shooting is a waste of a bullet for their type. Why saw their heads off when a stab would be so much more effective?

Halal is not brutal.

Sae...I'm not the one calling it brutal, or making the argument that it is, I've stated that, oh I don't know, umpteen bazillion times. Laws regarding the ethical treatment of livestock defines it as such. I don't think I've once voiced support for said laws. That I'm using the language of the two people at odds in this debate is just a matter of conversational conformity..lol. They have both decided to use the term brutal, and I don't feel like arguing for or against it....even if you do...so stop dragging me into your deep dark place, please.

With you on the stabbings though, now that I think about it, the whole sawing bit would take way too much effort on my part. Could probably let them die of old age as well.