(May 20, 2017 at 11:25 am)scoobysnack Wrote: This whole hysteria was a direct result of Clinton losing and the DNC hiring crowdstrike a security firm to look at their servers while denying the FBI access to do their own investigation.

I'm not sure how it could be, since what Trump does has little to nothing to do with Hillary or the DNC.

Quote:So really it's the DNC that created this narrative of Russian collusion while pretending they don't deal with Russia, but pointing their finger at Trump for working with Russia.

So Trump colluded with Russia, in  your opinion, but both parties do it by one name or another.  Collude, deal, work, wtvs.....interesting shift as the sentence carried on.  Totally kosher?

Quote:If anything the investigation will lead to information about DNC collusion with the media. Watching this whole thing unfold for the last several months at first was humorous, but now it's getting crazy. Especially watching the media push a false narrative, which is so obvious to be propaganda but I have to watch my fellow citizens gobble it up without thinking.

What false narrative is the media pushing?  The narrative that the trump administration has been colluding/dealing/working with russia........or?

(May 17, 2017 at 9:19 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Meanwhile Hillary Clinton's history with Russia is completely ignored lol. Trump derangement syndrome on full display. Sorry but people in government actually meet with their counter parts, which may be news to some. Considering Russia is working with the US to fight Isis, and a super power, just because the DNC keeps claiming Hillary lost because of Russia, mysogeny, racism, Islamophobia, nationalism, and desire for secure borders and maintaining national sovereignty instead of selling our independence out for dependence, Trump was the clear choice to bring the US economy back. 

Why are you acting like meeting with the Russians is strange?

Heres what I want you to do.
Find out how your countries government works, what people should and shouldn't do etc.
Then come back with an informed opinion, not just one you kinda have and think its right, one based on actual facts. I know you're a Christian and thinking something because of evidence goes against the grain, but give it a go and you'll be amazed just how much shit Trump has got himself in. Theres a reason he is trying to stifle investigations and wrangle personal loyalty oaths.

Lock him up , lock him up.

(May 24, 2017 at 12:38 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(May 20, 2017 at 11:25 am)scoobysnack Wrote: This whole hysteria was a direct result of Clinton losing and the DNC hiring crowdstrike a security firm to look at their servers while denying the FBI access to do their own investigation.

I'm not sure how it could be, since what Trump does has little to nothing to do with Hillary or the DNC.

Quote:So really it's the DNC that created this narrative of Russian collusion while pretending they don't deal with Russia, but pointing their finger at Trump for working with Russia.

So Trump colluded with Russia, in  your opinion, but both parties do it by one name or another.  Collude, deal, work, wtvs.....interesting shift as the sentence carried on.  Totally kosher?

Quote:If anything the investigation will lead to information about DNC collusion with the media. Watching this whole thing unfold for the last several months at first was humorous, but now it's getting crazy. Especially watching the media push a false narrative, which is so obvious to be propaganda but I have to watch my fellow citizens gobble it up without thinking.

What false narrative is the media pushing?  The narrative that the trump administration has been colluding/dealing/working with russia........or?

If both parties are dealing with Russia, then what's the point of being angry at one? Besides, we, the American people, need to be shown evidence that it was Russia who did it anyway. Russian hackers reveal a bunch of shady stuff done by the DNC, then the DNC says 'it was the Russians, they coluded with Trump, uhhh, evidence, no that's national security, just trust us.'

Yeah right. Do we need hackers to hack the evidence now? As far as I'm concerned any hacker who reveals shady stuff done by the government or either party is a hero. Also everybody had heard this story by the time the election rolled around, Trump and the Russians. Everybody. So if it influenced the election, which isn't proven either, it probably worked against Trump. But more to the point, evidence! We are Atheists, we crow all day about no belief without evidence, and then when it comes to politicians we don't like, people on these forums believe anything without evidence!

The thing is, what if the hackers only reveal one side of the story?

I wonder what deals the Republicans will cut in order to keep the the shoe from dropping?

The Brits have a great term for this sort of thing: got them by the short hairs.

I mean, what intelligence agency ever used blackmail as a tool of statecraft?

(May 23, 2017 at 3:40 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: For those of us less than 5000 years old, like Min, we didn't grow up in the cold war and the Russians are not our enemies. I have never thought of the Russians as our enemies and I don't know what is up with this attempt to make them so, esspecially considering that Atheists are always harping about not having 'belief without evidence'


I guess unless it involves Russia's hacking or whatever. We have never been shown any good evidence of even that, much less all these other claims. Russia isn't our enemy. The potential for better relations with Russia, as Noam Chomsky said, is perhaps the one silver lining of the Trump administration. Plus everybody started running this story about Russia back in early october or late september. By the time of the election everyone had heard it and voted for Trump anyway.

The boat for a mutually beneficial kind of better relationship with Russia sailed 15 years ago. From around 2005 onward better relationship between the US and Russia is not possible without much larger losses to US interests.

In any case, better relationship with a Russia that overtly interfered in the American presidential election would just confirm to the world that not only is the US no longer a superpower, it is not really even very much a serious sovereign state, just a big fat one to be roasted over a spit and larded with an iron poker for the benefit of whichever foreign power can recruit the underclass of GOP dirty tricksters and get some fifth rate failure of a brat loser into the whitehouse.

Quote:

Exactly what I'm saying as to why you get your panties in a bunch when Trump the actual president of the US meets with Russia, you have a conniption fit.

Wrong fucktard.  The WLB didn't just meet with his Russki pals he gave them classified information.  You know, the kind of classified information he claimed.... but never demonstrated... that HIllary had put at risk.  And when his scumbag supporters meet with russian criminals and government officials ( as if there is a difference) it should matter even to a fucktard like you.  But apparently, your patriotism is only party deep.

In case you wonder why I despise you, now you know.

(May 24, 2017 at 8:37 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 3:40 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: For those of us less than 5000 years old, like Min, we didn't grow up in the cold war and the Russians are not our enemies. I have never thought of the Russians as our enemies and I don't know what is up with this attempt to make them so, esspecially considering that Atheists are always harping about not having 'belief without evidence'


I guess unless it involves Russia's hacking or whatever. We have never been shown any good evidence of even that, much less all these other claims. Russia isn't our enemy. The potential for better relations with Russia, as Noam Chomsky said, is perhaps the one silver lining of the Trump administration. Plus everybody started running this story about Russia back in early october or late september. By the time of the election everyone had heard it and voted for Trump anyway.

The boat for a mutually beneficial kind of better relationship with Russia sailed 15 years ago.  From around 2005 onward better relationship between the US and Russia is not possible without much larger losses to US interests.

In any case, better relationship with a Russia that overtly interfered in the American presidential election would just confirm to the world that not only is the US no longer a superpower, it is not really even very much a serious sovereign state, just a big fat one to be roasted over a spit and larded with an iron poker for the benefit of whichever foreign power can recruit the underclass of GOP dirty tricksters and get some fifth rate failure of a brat loser into the whitehouse.

Could you clarify why you feel like we can't have better relationships with Russia? Maybe the relationship soured when we interfered with their elections in 1996 in order to promote Boris Yeltsin. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us-i...story.html Nevertheless I feel like our relationship with everyone is always open to improving. I'd be interested to hear more of your perspective on why you feel this is impossible with Russia, and also why (or whether) it's better to be more hostile towards them?

(May 24, 2017 at 5:58 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: If both parties are dealing with Russia, then what's the point of being angry at one? Besides, we, the American people, need to be shown evidence that it was Russia who did it anyway. Russian hackers reveal a bunch of shady stuff done by the DNC, then the DNC says 'it was the Russians, they coluded with Trump, uhhh, evidence, no that's national security, just trust us.'

Yeah right. Do we need hackers to hack the evidence now? As far as I'm concerned any hacker who reveals shady stuff done by the government or either party is a hero. Also everybody had heard this story by the time the election rolled around, Trump and the Russians. Everybody. So if it influenced the election, which isn't proven either, it probably worked against Trump. But more to the point, evidence! We are Atheists, we crow all day about no belief without evidence, and then when it comes to politicians we don't like, people on these forums believe anything without evidence!

It's no more or less illegal if both parties do it, so maybe be angry at both parties?  Tghe point of being angry at either party (or any party) that does it, Cap, is insisting on the rule of law, particularly with regard to them what make em........ On the other hand, the DNC isn;t being investigated for collusion, and said collusion only hurt trump in alternative facts land where there was no collusion and the fake media made it all up, so?  

Unfortunately, we lowly mortals are not privy to the details of these sort of allegations before the fact...but it would be silly to claim that team trump hasn't given us reason to believe, based upon available evidence, that something was awry.

Both parties, huh?

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/gop-oper...ts-report/

Quote:GOP operative asked Russian hacker Guccifer 2.0 for help — and got 2.5 gigabytes of stolen documents: report

Another traitorous republicunt pig caught going to the russkis.  Apparently this is fine with all our alt-right jackasses around here.   As long as you get your boy elected who cares, huh?

(May 24, 2017 at 9:34 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(May 24, 2017 at 8:37 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The boat for a mutually beneficial kind of better relationship with Russia sailed 15 years ago.  From around 2005 onward better relationship between the US and Russia is not possible without much larger losses to US interests.

In any case, better relationship with a Russia that overtly interfered in the American presidential election would just confirm to the world that not only is the US no longer a superpower, it is not really even very much a serious sovereign state, just a big fat one to be roasted over a spit and larded with an iron poker for the benefit of whichever foreign power can recruit the underclass of GOP dirty tricksters and get some fifth rate failure of a brat loser into the whitehouse.

Could you clarify why you feel like we can't have better relationships with Russia? Maybe the relationship soured when we interfered with their elections in 1996 in order to promote Boris Yeltsin. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us-i...story.html Nevertheless I feel like our relationship with everyone is always open to improving. I'd be interested to hear more of your perspective on why you feel this is impossible with Russia, and also why (or whether) it's better to be more hostile towards them?

Russia is a large and geographically vulnerable country. She has been accustomed to maintaining her security by excerting hegemonic influence over her neighbors. however, Russian has neither sufficient economic power, nor attractive political system, or admired cultural attributes that allows her to hold sway over and assimilate territories she consider vital for her security.  Therefore her concept of minimal security interests requires the that she hold forceful hegemonic influences in areas now considered by the west to be in the western sphere of influence.    Allowing Russian to pursue her current idea of essential security interests is therefore incompatible with:  1. the maintenance of an economically prosperous Eastern Europe, and 2. Reduction of incentive for "old Europe" - traditional cold war NATO states - to pursue internationally policies at odds with American interests.

Relationship with everyone is indeed alway open to improvement, just not everyone at the same time.  You have to pick and chose better relationship with whom is more beneficial.