(June 26, 2017 at 9:18 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Newton didn't make those contributions by bullshitting anyone about gods...and the adventist church's rep in healthcare is based on providing medicine, not jesus.  

What kind of failed ideology is so bankrupt in it's own accomplishments that it compels believers to appropriate the work of human beings as the work of their religion?  The greatest thing that christianity has ever done for society, if christianity's own stories are to be believed...is to beat a jew near to death then hang him on a cross so that some asshole, somewhere, can avoid just punishment for being an asshole.

Yeah, thanks for that.  

Newton never denied his Christian belief and actually gave credit to it for his accomplishments. The Adventist church most certainly uses Jesus in it's medical practices. I have Adventist friends who keep me informed on such things.

GC

(June 27, 2017 at 5:09 pm)SteveII Wrote: To answer the thread question: Do you think religion is holding society back?, you have to define "back from what".

Scientifically, no. In fact, Christianity was instrumental in the early progress of modern science (that's why it developed almost entirely in the west) because it taught that the world and nature was created and entirely discoverable and NOT endowed with spiritual or mystical qualities--like the rest of the world still believed.

Oh, is that how that happened?  -and here I thought it was some sort of period of enlightenment, where rationality became prominant, on the backs of some sort of, oh..whats the word..renaissance, of classical pagan thinking?  

Turns out the christers opened their bibles and christed all the science into existence.  

Quote:Some Utopian society? No. I think it has been proven over and over again that people do not play nicely with other different than themselves. I don't think there is any evidence that religious differences has done anywhere near the harm than non religious events of history.

I doubt that anything even approaching a utopian society will ever be achieved by people eager to shuffle off their mortal coil and get to the real deal, next life.  

Quote:Morality? No. In fact, I think religion has helped develop the general morality we see today in western countries. Most of us would agree that the western morality is superior to other parts of the world where differences arise.

Western morality, like hating on gays and unwed mothers?  Or do you mean, western morality, like..stop being a dick who hates on gays and unwed mothers? 

Quote:Imploding? Yes. No matter what you think about religion, it has a very real, largely positive, psychological effect on people

At least, here, we agree.  Alot of these guys tell us that , if there were no god..there;d be no reaon for them not to go out and lott the store and set fire to their neighbors house and rape his wife and murder the dog.  I'm glad those people don't waker up in the morning, altogether, and say "shit, there really is no god!".  It'd be mad max with jesus trash lying around everywhere.

---

(June 27, 2017 at 5:28 pm)Godscreated Wrote: Newton never denied his Christian belief and actually gave credit to it for his accomplishments.

Which is kind of funny, in that he showed his work...and there isn't any "jesus" in it.  

Quote:The Adventist church most certainly uses Jesus in it's medical practices. I have Adventist friends who keep me informed on such things.

GC

Oh yeah?   Boy I'd love to see what illnesses they treat with jesus, and some of their data on the efficacy of jesus based treatment. What kind of jesus dosage are they administering, and in what form?

(June 27, 2017 at 5:15 pm)Sal Wrote: To answer OP, yes.

Religious fanaticism gave us the Dark Ages and the Catholic Church vehemently silenced, tortured and murdered dissenters.

The dark ages were started by the fall of a corrupt Roman Empire that failed to defend itself from barbaric forces outside of Christianity, the church eventually helped to pull the western world out of that darkness through literacy, why, because the Bible was being translated into different languages and the people began to have the desire to learn and read the Bible in their own languages and find out what the Church was hiding from them, the reformers were great men and served the people well.

GC

Cool story, bro. I'm a fan of alternative history as well.

(June 27, 2017 at 5:30 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

---

(June 27, 2017 at 5:28 pm)Godscreated Wrote: Newton never denied his Christian belief and actually gave credit to it for his accomplishments.

Which is kind of funny, in that he showed his work...and there isn't any "jesus" in it.  

He believed in Jesus as the creator so Jesus was all over his work, he knew he was showing what Jesus had done.

Quote:The Adventist church most certainly uses Jesus in it's medical practices. I have Adventist friends who keep me informed on such things.

GC

Khemikla Wrote:Oh yeah?   Boy I'd love to see what illnesses they treat with jesus, and some of their data on the efficacy of jesus based treatment.  What kind of jesus dosage are they administering, and in what form?

Love, compassion, hope, comfort, reading of the scriptures to those who want it, all highly effect medicines, those same things my wife as a nurse uses to help people to recover.

GC

---

(June 27, 2017 at 5:40 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Cool story, bro.  I'm a fan of alternative history as well.

You need to go and study history pal, and if you do please learn something.

GC

(June 27, 2017 at 5:53 pm)Godscreated Wrote: He believed in Jesus as the creator so Jesus was all over his work, he knew he was showing what Jesus had done.

Seems to me all he showed was what he had done.  Which portions, of newtons work, if you had to guess...were jesus?  

Quote:Love, compassion, hope, comfort, reading of the scriptures to those who want it, all highly effect medicines, those same things my wife as a nurse uses to help people to recover.

"Quick, quick, nurse, this man is going into cardiac arrest, get me the love, compassion, hope, and comfort.  Make sure we say the magic words first.  His life depends on it!"
-said no competent surgeon, ever.  

I doubt that their reputation in providing medicine has anything at all to do with reading people fairytales by the bedside.

Quote:You need to go and study history pal, and if you do please learn something.

GC

I tried, but all christianity gave us was this bible....so?  

(June 27, 2017 at 5:28 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 26, 2017 at 9:18 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Newton didn't make those contributions by bullshitting anyone about gods...and the adventist church's rep in healthcare is based on providing medicine, not jesus.  

What kind of failed ideology is so bankrupt in it's own accomplishments that it compels believers to appropriate the work of human beings as the work of their religion?  The greatest thing that christianity has ever done for society, if christianity's own stories are to be believed...is to beat a jew near to death then hang him on a cross so that some asshole, somewhere, can avoid just punishment for being an asshole.

Yeah, thanks for that.  

Newton never denied his Christian belief and actually gave credit to it for his accomplishments. The Adventist church most certainly uses Jesus in it's medical practices. I have Adventist friends who keep me informed on such things.

GC

Newton never denied he was am Alchemist either. In fact, he wrote more on alchemy than he did on science and Christianity.

Bottom line, the fact that he was a Christian, means absolutely nothing when it comes to scientific discoveries. The fact that he may have claimed his work was in any way inspired by his supernatural god beliefs, says nothing about whether that claim is actually true.

His discoveries would be just as valid if he was a Hindu.

(June 26, 2017 at 11:28 am)It_Was_me Wrote:

(June 26, 2017 at 11:24 am)Astonished Wrote: That's not even a fucking question. It's not even the biggest indictment of religion.

But we'll run out of resources before we ever develop comparable technology. Shame, since we would need interstellar travel capability to get more, but we can't achieve that without said extra resources. Real Catch-22 we've got shoved up us.

All I asked is if Religion is holding society back. Geezz.

Yes, it is.

http://www.oddlyhistorical.com/2015/04/1...ning-rods/

Slow adoption

In spite of the obvious advantages that lightning rods presented for owners of tall buildings, particularly churches, their adoption was a slow and painful affair. Superstition and fear prevented people from trying the invention for themselves. Their fear found encouragement from many ministers and priests of the day. In America, Reverend Thomas Price of Old South Church in Massachusetts blamed the earthquake of 1755 on Franklin’s blasphemous invention. Since God could not vent his retribution from the sky, the Reverend said, he did it by shaking the Earth. He concluded by saying that “God’s wrath will not be thwarted.”

(June 27, 2017 at 5:38 pm)Godscreated Wrote: The dark ages were started by the fall of a corrupt Roman Empire that failed to defend itself from barbaric forces outside of Christianity, the church eventually helped to pull the western world out of that darkness through literacy, why, because the Bible was being translated into different languages and the people began to have the desire to learn and read the Bible in their own languages and find out what the Church was hiding from them, the reformers were great men and served the people well.

GC

That didn't work out to well for William Tyndale did it? Burned alive for translating the bible into English.

---

(June 27, 2017 at 8:18 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: http://www.oddlyhistorical.com/2015/04/1...ning-rods/

Slow adoption

In spite of the obvious advantages that lightning rods presented for owners of tall buildings, particularly churches, their adoption was a slow and painful affair. Superstition and fear prevented people from trying the invention for themselves. Their fear found encouragement from many ministers and priests of the day. In America, Reverend Thomas Price of Old South Church in Massachusetts blamed the earthquake of 1755 on Franklin’s blasphemous invention. Since God could not vent his retribution from the sky, the Reverend said, he did it by shaking the Earth. He concluded by saying that “God’s  wrath will not be thwarted.”

Yep. Thirty years after Franklin invented the lightening conductor church bell ringers in Europe were being electrocuted.