(July 24, 2011 at 6:29 pm)DaveD Wrote:

(July 24, 2011 at 6:24 pm)Darwinian Wrote: Where were you hiding?

Under a bridge?

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(July 24, 2011 at 6:22 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: All of you have an outside perspective of God which is understandable. As I have an outside perspective of Atheism. Look probably none of you are going to agree with me no matter how long we debate. Its been a great debate. Shall we agree to end it? but before we do I have one final question for everyone of you. What if you reached your final day and died and stood before God himself. What would you say to him?

I'd say that all you have is a vivid imagination but it isn't even your own imagination, it's borrowed from some long dead desert nomads who eventually wrote their camp-fire stories down after generations of unreliable oral history.
Think about what you wrote in your OP. Essentially you're saying that something cannot come from nothing. OK, let's accept that for the sake of argument. Where then did your god come from? Nothing?

ok to ALL others please refrain from commenting on this for the sake of ending the thread. But I'v answered this tons of times in earlier post. God is God. He's the one that created the laws of physics and science he has no need or requirement to follow them. He created you with a beginning and an end (at least in this life) and thats why you cant comprehend God having no beginning. Everything in your world has beginning but God is not bound by the laws of this world.

(July 24, 2011 at 3:25 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: .. Christians are actually called to serve people in anyways possible in the word. We are actually required to serve others as much as we possible can and even take the very cloths off our back and give it to others if they need it. Christians are called to a very high standard of service to all people...

That service you speak of is not altruistic. When you say Christians are called upon to serve people in ways possible in the word the motivating factor behind that service are found in the keywords " anyways possible in the word."


2 John 1:10
If any one cometh unto you, and bringeth not this teaching, receive him not into your house, and give him no greeting:

Fundamentalists usually defer to the text contained in the King James version however, either way, it says the same thing.

The Christian service you speak of is afforded to those who may be deemed worthy of receiving it in the name of promoting Christian principles, and conversion of the grateful. The later intention being demonstrated either outright or as a ulterior motivation to compel the recipient to feel their faith, if they have one, allowed them to suffer as a consequence of it's falsehood. While the new and only god and his people are potent, charitable and offering salvation from the ills of this world and as a shield against the travails that come in the after life because god/ Jesus eternally cares for his own alive or dead. (Unless their zip code happens to be in hell where they'll still be with god, if they can see him through the flames he lets to burn eternally Psalms 139:7-10)

In the meanwhile Christian service, in any ways possible in the word is demonstrated by Christian terrorism. Executed by inspiration gleaned from the word and even through the outright command to resort to violence. Because Christianity, a death cult by every standard, is not tolerant of faiths in opposition to it.

Christian Terrorism (*Wiki*)

Now while some will argue Wiki is the least likely source for legitimate research into this matter, it's not proffered as a peer review study that assembled statistics on the matter. Rather, it's offered not only for the context but for the Bibliography that permits one to avail themselves of the opportunity to take the initiative and ascertain whether or not the Wiki compilation of alleged facts are indeed credible.



Lest we forget, the recent terror strike in Oslo Norway was the responsibility of a Neo-Nazi Christian. And he executed his vile act, as a man who allegedly had no prior criminal record or issues of violence, because he adopted two labels he thought described his personal identity and took the philosophies behind each and executed his agenda bolstered by anyway possible in the word. Of Hitler and of the dictator god of Christianity.

Christians very often claim their most atrocious behaviors are because god wills it, by the teachings in his word.
Love the sinner hate the sin.
Not mine but god's will be done.
It's not me it's in the Bible.

What a perfect scapegoat that god is made to be, for the free will choice his believers make acting in his name. With violence, intolerance, bigotry, hate. As if divine edict absolves them of personal responsibility. While god is not a fact. Has never been proven to exist and that is all true and affording no legitimate objection by any theist. Because all theists cling to faith, hope, god exists. And all they have to cling to in support of that faith is what is said to be the word of god yet has the traceable history of coming into print through the efforts of over 40 different authors over a period of 1400 to 1800 years and all under the supervision and council elections controlled by the offices of men.

I'm not here to talk you out of your faith. That would be folly. As would your intent to talk atheists into accepting an irrational paradigm is actually credible and worthy of committing our life to. Because you see, if god did exist it would be irrational that atheists did. Faith would instead be fact. Your Biblical canon, a closed canon, would be evolving as god inspired new communications, new guidance, wisdom for the age.
Rather than in this 21st century, it being the faithful that have to glean the message for today from ancient directives contained in a compilation of sources that date as far back as 3500 years with the Pentateuch, unto 1611 with the first edition of King James version.

No one alive 3500 years ago could have even conceived of the world today. And certainly there is enough evidence to prove that in the 1600's, in the name of god, church and crown, a mortal sinful authority that sat the throne of power as god's anointed King or Queen, Christian authority by pronouncement did prove they served people "in anyways possible in the word".
Because while the crown and church lived high, the peasantry were enslaved by the word.Though they and the elite alike did share a common ground. Both were punished by the word. As those deemed heretics were hung, burned, so that the ravages of the flames in this life would cleanse the damned so they'd not suffer Hell afterward, or guillotined in the name of preserving god's holy ordinance within his earthly realm.

So you are most welcome to your faith, for I'd not ever think to try to lead you from it. However, while you enjoy yourself there in that place of your choosing, and are fully entitled to debate the matter here with atheists, please don't presume to let one of your arguments entail the claim that yours is a faith of charity for all people according to the word.

Because true charity gives without asking for anything in return. True compassion feels pain for others who suffer, without preaching there's a way out of that strife if only those suffering abandon all they hold dear and respect and convert to a god who is, by all accounts taking him at his word, uncharitable.

Remember, the Bible says ye are gods. If you want to speak of good works and charity inspired, hold faith in that. And aspire to a higher example than your father.

(July 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: ok to ALL others please refrain from commenting on this for the sake of ending the thread.

That's not going to work, pal. You may be able to start a thread, but you can't really end it by asking us not to comment. You wanted a discussion and here it is. Deal with it, ignore it or go away. That is your choice, but no one is going to leave the thread alone because you realized that you have an inability to answer the questions you raised.

(July 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: ok to ALL others please refrain from commenting on this for the sake of ending the thread. But I'v answered this tons of times in earlier post. God is God. He's the one that created the laws of physics and science he has no need or requirement to follow them. He created you with a beginning and an end (at least in this life) and thats why you cant comprehend God having no beginning. Everything in your world has beginning but God is not bound by the laws of this world.

You haven't answered anything. You've avoided answering by using baffle-gab that means nothing.

Very very weak. It's as though you've driven by in your car, thrown a bible through my bay window, and peeled out giggling like a schoolgirl.

(seriously wondering if there's a petition to list The Discovery Institute as a hate group)

(July 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: God is God. He's the one that created the laws of physics and science he has no need or requirement to follow them. He created you with a beginning and an end (at least in this life) and thats why you cant comprehend God having no beginning. Everything in your world has beginning but God is not bound by the laws of this world.

hmm, and which one of the goat-herders-turned-prophet informed you of this little gem??

The one that talked to burning bushes? or maybe the one that cursed children to be mauled by bears? or perhaps the one that commanded the armies of Israel to kill women and children?



Why we keep you people around is beyond me. If it were up to me you'd be gone already.

(July 24, 2011 at 6:22 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: All of you have an outside perspective of God which is understandable. As I have an outside perspective of Atheism. Look probably none of you are going to agree with me no matter how long we debate. Its been a great debate. Shall we agree to end it? but before we do I have one final question for everyone of you. What if you reached your final day and died and stood before God himself. What would you say to him?

Wouldn't happen, he's not real.

(July 24, 2011 at 7:08 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(July 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: ok to ALL others please refrain from commenting on this for the sake of ending the thread.

That's not going to work, pal. You may be able to start a thread, but you can't really end it by asking us not to comment. You wanted a discussion and here it is. Deal with it, ignore it or go away. That is your choice, but no one is going to leave the thread alone because you realized that you have an inability to answer the questions you raised.

Its not that at all. It's just that Iv spent what is it? 3 or 4 days arguing back and forth with no end and its clear that neither side will give way. Im just tired of all this reading and answering I do. I mean it was fun while it last but its just getting old because we are basically still arguing the exact same thing, a subject/question that cannot be ever proven untrue or proven correct. It's called faith for a reason. So I see that there is no end to this in the near future. I mean this could go on for 100 more pages. This is an un-winable argument by either side because you cant prove it either way.

(July 24, 2011 at 6:22 pm)GodIsRealOrNothingMakesSince Wrote: All of you have an outside perspective of God which is understandable. As I have an outside perspective of Atheism. Look probably none of you are going to agree with me no matter how long we debate. Its been a great debate. Shall we agree to end it? but before we do I have one final question for everyone of you. What if you reached your final day and died and stood before God himself. What would you say to him?

Okay lets play what if. In my movie, if god and heaven turn out to be exactly as described by christians and assuming I still have plenty of free will, I would tell IT I'm not here to suck up. I'd say thanks but no thanks. Like someone around here has in their signature, "choose heaven for the climate but hell for the company." But understand, this isn't anything anyone really needs to worry about. What will YOU do if you have to answer to allah for not killing the infidels? Or buddha for not smashing that wheel of life? Not worried? Me neither.

You're not arguing "back and forth". That's what has some of us so frustrated. You dropped a load of already discredited claims on the forums and then refused to defend your position. Theists do this constantly, imagine how tiresome it is to respond to the same arguments over and over, insult to injury, they never defend anything that they claim. The argument has already been settled with anyone who actually cares to consider it. Your god is a myth. Christian apologetics has failed to produce a new argument in about 200 years (the arguments that existed then, and have continued to plug along, have been soundly and embarrassingly dismantled).