(July 22, 2011 at 1:08 pm)Epimethean Wrote: I blame Dante for the development of this bullshit notion. It took art-not science-to make hell into a full tilt nastiness, and that fact underscores exactly why the notion is pure rubbish. Aside from extortion and coercion, hell has zero value philosophically. It is a political expedient now.

Dante was writing a work of fiction and labeled it as such. In fact, the intent was political satire.

Jesus in the Gospels described a cruel torture where a rich man just wanted a drop of water as he was being cooked alive in the flames. Muhammad came along and created a Hell that would make Dante's look like "Heck" in comparison. Don't be too hard on Dante.

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(July 24, 2011 at 6:39 pm)C Rod Wrote: You wont know till your dead so how are you certain when you are alive?

Memory is stored in the brain and accessed from it. Furthermore, memory can be lost if the brain is damaged, either through injuries, illness (like Alzheimer's) or simply old age. Like a damaged hard drive, some files can be lost if the drive is damaged or formatted.

Knowing that memory is lost from damage to the brain, what would be any basis of hope that memory would survive the process of death, which destroys the brain utterly?

Death is much like being asleep. Except there is no dreaming and you will never wake up.
What's so scary about that? You won't even be aware that you're dead. Space and time will no longer have any meaning to you. Not so bad.

(July 25, 2011 at 8:58 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Death is much like being asleep. Except there is no dreaming and you will never wake up.
What's so scary about that? You won't even be aware that you're dead. Space and time will no longer have any meaning to you. Not so bad.

How could you possibly know you haven't experienced it yet, besides if it were what you believe death to be, then after your gone I would agree, no big deal, however it is getting to that point that brings the terrifying fear, I've experienced christians dying and seen peace and I've seen others who feared death with all their being, so maybe you might want to rethink death when it is the finial stage as you seem to believe.

(July 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: How could you possibly know you haven't experienced it yet, besides if it were what you believe death to be, then after your gone I would agree, no big deal, however it is getting to that point that brings the terrifying fear, I've experienced christians dying and seen peace and I've seen others who feared death with all their being, so maybe you might want to rethink death when it is the finial stage as you seem to believe.

My mother and father were both atheists. They went to their deaths in peace. They'd both lived full and productive lives, had found love with each other and raised a reasonably functional family and each accomplished what they wanted to in their professional lives as well.

You're right that people when they're lucid and dying are either at peace or terrified, one of two extremes. The difference lies not in their confidence of a happy afterlife but rather of their contentment in the life they'd lived.

Quote:How could you possibly know you haven't experienced it yet,

I've been dead for billions of years. So have you. Hasn't bothered you at all though has it?
We already know what it's like to be dead. I can understand why people believe in some kind of afterlife. They've fallen in love with being alive. But I'm afraid it is temporary. It's entirely up to you whether you can accept that or not.

Quote:besides if it were what you believe death to be, then after your gone I would agree, no big deal, however it is getting to that point that brings the terrifying fear, I've experienced christians dying and seen peace and I've seen others who feared death with all their being, so maybe you might want to rethink death when it is the finial stage as you seem to believe.

What are you afraid of? Truthfully? You afraid you might end up in hell? You afraid of closing your eyes for the last time?
I do not fear such things. Death is a natural part of life. Death is simply the end of biological function. Take each day as it comes, do not dwell on your impending doom. For it is unavoidable.

When I'm good and old and my body tells me when it's nearly time. I shall embrace peace and allow death to take me without fear or pointless resistance. When I die, I will be beyond space and time. Billions of years would pass like seconds. Just as hours pass by when you sleep. Time will no longer have any meaning to you. Death is just the ending of life and ultimately, your conciousness. You won't even be aware that you're dead. Just as you were not aware of anything before birth. I find it interesting, not scary.

What are you afraid of?

Quote:Dante was writing a work of fiction and labeled it as such.

So was Dan Brown but that didn't stop xtian shitheads from losing their minds about his book.

(July 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: How could you possibly know you haven't experienced it yet, besides if it were what you believe death to be, then after your gone I would agree, no big deal, however it is getting to that point that brings the terrifying fear, I've experienced christians dying and seen peace and I've seen others who feared death with all their being, so maybe you might want to rethink death when it is the finial stage as you seem to believe.

Why fear something that is completely inevitable? The only reason the process of getting to death is fearful for people is because they are completely unprepared for it. How exactly would a belief in the afterlife cure this? After all, no one could really be sure they had done enough in their life to placate your god, and the fear of hell would just bring anxiety in an already difficult time. Perhaps the greatest thing about Buddhism is it teaches you to confront this reality head on instead of making up silly scenarios to give you a false sense of comfort. Your religion could take some advice from that one.

The human race needs to deal with reality instead of living in a state of delusion.

(July 25, 2011 at 8:29 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(July 22, 2011 at 1:08 pm)Epimethean Wrote: I blame Dante for the development of this bullshit notion. It took art-not science-to make hell into a full tilt nastiness, and that fact underscores exactly why the notion is pure rubbish. Aside from extortion and coercion, hell has zero value philosophically. It is a political expedient now.

Dante was writing a work of fiction and labeled it as such. In fact, the intent was political satire.

Jesus in the Gospels described a cruel torture where a rich man just wanted a drop of water as he was being cooked alive in the flames. Muhammad came along and created a Hell that would make Dante's look like "Heck" in comparison. Don't be too hard on Dante.

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(July 24, 2011 at 6:39 pm)C Rod Wrote: You wont know till your dead so how are you certain when you are alive?

Memory is stored in the brain and accessed from it. Furthermore, memory can be lost if the brain is damaged, either through injuries, illness (like Alzheimer's) or simply old age. Like a damaged hard drive, some files can be lost if the drive is damaged or formatted.

Knowing that memory is lost from damage to the brain, what would be any basis of hope that memory would survive the process of death, which destroys the brain utterly?

A hope that the view of the dead and said body from the living is supremely different from the view of the One that never dies. I will surely die but what happens after that exact moment of loss of cognitive action in this world is a mystery to the living. It perplexes me that we do not know it and its mystery has been revealed to billions with never the revealing of its secret. Like Ace said it is very interesting and fascinating but i have to ask could it ever be understood could the secret ever be made known? Or is a presume nothing for the sake of convenience or lack of evidence?

You're just going to keep stating that death is mysterious? Waste of time.

(July 25, 2011 at 7:39 pm)C Rod Wrote: A hope that the view of the dead and said body from the living is supremely different from the view of the One that never dies. I will surely die but what happens after that exact moment of loss of cognitive action in this world is a mystery to the living. It perplexes me that we do not know it and its mystery has been revealed to billions with never the revealing of its secret. Like Ace said it is very interesting and fascinating but i have to ask could it ever be understood could the secret ever be made known? Or is a presume nothing for the sake of convenience or lack of evidence?