Thankfully, I never had to worry about dodging.

I cannot impregnate another man, after all.

(July 7, 2017 at 3:16 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Just no . You say you want consquences for men who walk  away multpule times . So what gonna stop them ?Why should it be more then one instead of one? If your gonna argue one was a mistake how will you determine it? My veiw is not coloured it's tampered by reality . I agree the system needs to be changed so we can catch the dodgers . Not make it easier for them to dodge.

I merely note that they exist.  Who's talking about making it easier for anyone to ditch their kids, anyway?  

Quote:And again no
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/06/17/is-is-unfair-to-force-men-to-support-their-children/

Since I'm not making the argument that it's unfair for men to be made to support their children I don't know why it's relevant. I'm suggesting that both men and women should be able to decide that they don;t want children..before there is ever a child to support.

Quote:There is no such thing as forced fatherhood
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/13/there_is_no_forced_fatherhood_crisis/

Perhaps you should quote some part of that article relevant to my position?  This one, of all three, is probably the best loop...since it doesn't even deliver on it's own premise. It;s just a bunch of "hur dur they get away with it" - get away -with what-..if there's anything at all to get away with..that means that there is such a thing as forced fatherhood.

Quote:And not it can't be a choice
http://www.salon.com/2013/11/07/no_child..._a_choice/

Irrelevant yet again.  

Link bombing is less than compelling..not that posting the contents of any of those links would have mattered..having looked at them.

I see these arguments and all I can think is how everyone would be up in arms if you were making them about abortion instead.

What's to stop him from doing it multiple times? Who gives a fuck if he does it multiple times? Who gives a fuck if a woman has an abortion multiple times?

No one should be having babies they don't want and/or can't support.

@Astonished, you do bring up good points, nobody is denying shitty parents exist and they have a hand in raising their kid in a shitty environment, without a proper role model, angry and I don't doubt it messes up them a lot either.

But what is your suggestion to do when a woman gets pregnant but the man don't want it? Having a parent that hates you for being born is worse than not having a parent that hates your existence. Just my opinion. (and safer. Especially for the kid. You never know what a person /parent that hates your existence will do to you..maybe they think you're the reason they're living a shitty life..that's a person you would rather not want around you ,especially as a guardian. Damn, people are so selfish these days)

(July 7, 2017 at 3:24 pm)Losty Wrote: I see these arguments and all I can think is how everyone would be up in arms if you were making them about abortion instead.

What's to stop him from doing it multiple times? Who gives a fuck if he does it multiple times? Who gives a fuck if a woman has an abortion multiple times?

No one should be having babies they don't want and/or can't support.

Bingo, and if the only reasonable means by which a person could expect to be able to support a child is by leveraging their position and the power of state to extract funds from a person who explicitly does not want children...then -that- person should re-examine their own life decisions and stop bitching about the other guy. As each of those links -actually- attest to...it's not exactly going well even n cases where the other person -did-..at least at some point, want children.

If a person is vocal from the outset, we know from the outset that we've got a runner on our hands - and that should factor into whether or not a person carries to term. If a person, knowing they have a runner, understanding that the other wants no part in it....then decides to have a child..they have -that- right (unless they're a man...for obvious reasons)...but how does this grant them the right to impose upon the other? The state can and does make a case of compelling interest pursuant to poverty and welfare....but it's impossible to ignore that this case is based upon that initial, unilateral, decision.

Let's put it in another context. If someones significant other decides that they want a new car...but the other half is unwilling to sign on the dotted line - what right or reasonable expectation..then, does the person who wants the car have to the other being made to pay for half of it if they go ahead and grab the keys anyway?

(July 7, 2017 at 3:30 pm)pool the matey Wrote: But what is your suggestion to do when a woman gets pregnant but the man don't want it? Having a parent that hates you for being born is worse than not having a parent that hates your existence. Just my opinion.

Indeed. As I have already stated, women have an out if they choose to not be a parent, and that is abortion.

Where is the out for a man? With the current inequality, a man must care for the child whether he wanted it or not.

Obviously once the baby is born this should no longer be an option. You shouldn't be allowed to just choose to "opt out" out of your 7 year old's life because you're getting divorced and don't want to pay child support.

(July 7, 2017 at 3:38 pm)Losty Wrote: Obviously once the baby is born this should no longer be an option. You shouldn't be allowed to just choose to "opt out" out of your 7 year old's life because you're getting divorced and don't want to pay child support.

Indeed. Prior to the birth, however, the man should be afforded an out.

(Not really responding to anyone in particular)

Let's look at the human animal a little more, and at instinct and evolution. It seems to me that among young adults, men are much more likely to use relationships to get sex, and women are more likely to consent to sexual encounters because young men set it as a criterion for continuing the relationship. "Come on, baby. . . if you really loved me. . . " It seems extremely hypocritical to me that a man in this state should not be expected to live up to the post-sex stages of sexual reproduction-- whether he wants to or not. "I was willing to pay for an abortion, but she wouldn't do it, so it's on her now. . . " That's shitty-- just because she has moral or even instinctive reasons not to go through with an abortion doesn't mean she should get a life sentence while he's free as a bird.


In some cases, you just have a couple of people who are so horny they couldn't think straight enough to stop and get a condom, or to plan ahead enough for the girl to get on the pill or whatever. Again, they are both submitting to an extremely strong instinctive drive. Why should one of them get a life sentence for HER logical fail in the face of strong instinct, and he get a pass for his?

Saying "She has control. She could have gotten an abortion or gone on the pill" really isn't fair. Some girls don't have access to abortions. Some are against it for moral or religious reasons, which if she's young have been conditioned in her. Blaming her because she's not enlightened enough to see a fertilized egg as just a bundle of cells isn't a good enough reason for thrusting her into a lifelong commitment to a young human being with no support from anyone. Blaming her because she's let a sexual situation come up when she may not have seen it coming at all isn't fair either-- for sure, the young man has been working very hard to GET that situation to come up.


Nah, fuck that. It DOES take two to tango, and in the case of young people, it probably takes MORE than two to deal with the consequences. Pull that other little fucker out of the dance club, give him a goddamned spatula and a McDonald's cap, and let him start paying for his mistakes in an equal way.

(July 7, 2017 at 5:06 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Nah, fuck that.  It DOES take two to tango, and in the case of young people, it probably takes MORE than two to deal with the consequences.  Pull that other little fucker out of the dance club, give him a goddamned spatula and a McDonald's cap, and let him start paying for his mistakes in an equal way.

It takes two to tango, but one in the relationship can always legally opt of being a parent by having an abortion while the male has no legal option to opt of parenting should the woman decide to keep the baby.