Torture is simply making people feel pain.
Usually; humans have both psychological and physical weak points that can make the human feel pain.

Sadly, the disaster is that this act is practiced to achieve goals, since it's so feared and no human is immune to it.
But why would humans do it to each others? is the goal wanted to be achieved is so crucial ?

Organized, official torture creates more psychopaths than imagined. The implications of this hideous act are not just about revenge of the victims; but also they becoming the torturer and do what the torture do to innocent people.

Imagine if the victim was innocent. Imagine more if the wrong person was held as criminal. Imagine the friends and family who saw the aftermath, then you'll imagine how big this is.

It is so big. It is so hideous. Which price can pay for the screams, tears and desperation of the tortured?
If one or two made a wrong turn; thousands did simply not take the same turn.

Imagine a bullet that kills 10 people before hitting its target.

In the past you had advocated for the chopping off of hands for the crime of theft. How is that different than torture? What if the person is innocent? What does it do to the psychology of the one bearing the sword?

(July 8, 2017 at 6:04 am)chimp3 Wrote: In the past you had advocated for the chopping off of hands for the crime of theft. How is that different than torture? What if the person is innocent? What does it do to the psychology of the one bearing the sword?

Penalties differ drastically from systematic crimes.

Fines and prison are a type of torture. To judge them not to be "barbaric" enough; or not to be "savage" enough is just playing around with the meaning of torture: eventually we look for the pain.

Political torture and criminal torture,...etc, are always playing around using pain; in places where pain should not be used: i.e stopping a revolt against a dictator.

Cutting the hand, and all the penalties in Islam are facing pain with pain: thieves rob people out of their hard work, adultery increases crime rates because children get born without parents to raise them, killing is....well killing.

But torturing a whole neighborhood (like in Syria) because you want to strike fear, to bury a revolt, is so wrong.

You would advocate torture for adultery?

(July 8, 2017 at 6:23 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 6:04 am)chimp3 Wrote: In the past you had advocated for the chopping off of hands for the crime of theft. How is that different than torture? What if the person is innocent? What does it do to the psychology of the one bearing the sword?

Penalties differ drastically from systematic crimes.

Fines and prison are a type of torture. To judge them not to be "barbaric" enough; or not to be "savage" enough is just playing around with the meaning of torture: eventually we look for the pain.

Political torture and criminal torture,...etc, are always playing around using pain; in places where pain should not be used: i.e stopping a revolt against a dictator.

Cutting the hand, and all the penalties in Islam are facing pain with pain: thieves rob people out of their hard work, adultery increases crime rates because children get born without parents to raise them, killing is....well killing.

But torturing a whole neighborhood (like in Syria) because you want to strike fear, to bury a revolt, is so wrong.

What you appear to be saying is that you approve of torture for acts which your religion tells you are wrong, but not for anything else. I'm not picking on Islam - this is a distressingly common mindset among religionists.

Doesn't this seem to make a case for torture being part and parcel of religion?

Boru

(July 8, 2017 at 6:27 am)chimp3 Wrote: You would advocate torture for adultery?

No. I would advocate questioning men and women who agree to exchange semen without a formal certificate.
Usually; that happens through sexual intercourse between men and women.

If a woman or a man had sex with a different specie, there is no penalty.
If a male or a female had sex with the same sex, there is no penalty.

If a man and woman had a sexual intercourse without any legal bound, like marriage, there is a penalty.
Actually; that is a very irresponsible act against the society, and against the child that might result too.


BrianSoddingBoru4

Quote: What you appear to be saying is that you approve of torture for acts which your religion tells you are wrong, but not for anything else. I'm not picking on Islam - this is a distressingly common mindset among religionists.

Doesn't this seem to make a case for torture being part and parcel of religion?

Boru

It's more of a set of penalties.
Just like all secular constitutions contain and use to keep the wheel of society turning.

(July 8, 2017 at 7:13 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 6:27 am)chimp3 Wrote: You would advocate torture for adultery?

No. I would advocate questioning men and women who agree to exchange semen without a formal certificate.
Usually; that happens through sexual intercourse between men and women.

If a woman or a man had sex with a different specie, there is no penalty.
If a male or a female had sex with the same sex, there is no penalty.

If a man and woman had a sexual intercourse without any legal bound, like marriage, there is a penalty.
Actually; that is a very irresponsible act against the society, and against the child that might result too.

Questioning? As in asking politely or under severe distress?

Sex is irresponsible? If they use condoms and birth control pills or raise the child together outside of marriage what fucking business is it of yours?

(July 8, 2017 at 7:28 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 7:13 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: No. I would advocate questioning men and women who agree to exchange semen without a formal certificate.
Usually; that happens through sexual intercourse between men and women.

If a woman or a man had sex with a different specie, there is no penalty.
If a male or a female had sex with the same sex, there is no penalty.

If a man and woman had a sexual intercourse without any legal bound, like marriage, there is a penalty.
Actually; that is a very irresponsible act against the society, and against the child that might result too.

Questioning? As in asking politely or under severe distress?

Sex is irresponsible? If they use condoms and birth control pills or raise the child together outside of marriage what fucking business is it of yours?

Politely.
If the couple truly believe in God; they would answer and take the penalty. If otherwise they decided not to; then God will answer; either in this life or the next.

As soon as they close the doors, shut the windows, in a community of believers who don't spy because it's forbidden, they're alone under God's sight anyways. So he should take care of them; either by punishment or otherwise.

Muslims who militarized Islam; using extreme measures like stoning; torture and Niqab to pass on their psychological illnesses, never was a good example on how the Quran is executed.

Condoms and pills are new stuff.

(July 8, 2017 at 7:48 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 7:28 am)chimp3 Wrote: Questioning? As in asking politely or under severe distress?

Sex is irresponsible? If they use condoms and birth control pills or raise the child together outside of marriage what fucking business is it of yours?

Politely.
If the couple truly believe in God; they would answer and take the penalty. If otherwise they decided not to; then God will answer; either in this life or the next.

As soon as they close the doors, shut the windows, in a community of believers who don't spy because it's forbidden, they're alone under God's sight anyways. So he should take care of them; either by punishment or otherwise.

Muslims who militarized Islam; using extreme measures like stoning; torture and Niqab to pass on their psychological illnesses, never was a good example on how the Quran is executed.

Condoms and pills are new stuff.

What is the penalty for two consenting adults having sex?

Yes, condoms and birth control are new stuff! Your iron aged deity is like an old grumpy man saying "Kids these days!".

(July 8, 2017 at 7:53 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 7:48 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Politely.
If the couple truly believe in God; they would answer and take the penalty. If otherwise they decided not to; then God will answer; either in this life or the next.

As soon as they close the doors, shut the windows, in a community of believers who don't spy because it's forbidden, they're alone under God's sight anyways. So he should take care of them; either by punishment or otherwise.

Muslims who militarized Islam; using extreme measures like stoning; torture and Niqab to pass on their psychological illnesses, never was a good example on how the Quran is executed.

Condoms and pills are new stuff.

What is the penalty for two consenting adults having sex?

Yes, condoms and birth control are new stuff! Your iron aged deity is like an old grumpy man saying "Kids these days!".

I wouldn't be so proud about modern culture if I were you; humanity's work is amazing but life is like rain that hit plants, as they had their spring and autumn must follow.

Adults is not enough to make it sex: sex must contain a gender; too.
I suppose you mean "what the penalty for two consenting adults of different genders".

It is 100 lashes for both; and they can't marry but a heathen or another who had sex outside of marriage.