(July 27, 2017 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

I have to agree on this. My doctor is a female for this reason. I don't feel comfortable with any male other than my other half seeing my hoohah. Why would I think I'd be okay with a complete stranger seeing me that way?

(July 27, 2017 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

Holy shit, you stupidly think that is a 1 way thing? When I go into the men's bathroom I don't like rows of stand up urinals with no dividers. If the dividers are not there or too small, I will use a stall instead. 

And you are talking about men who get surgery to become women. You do know there have been women who transitioned to male, who have been beaten up in men's bathrooms because of bigoted assholes.

I could give a shit less who is in the bathroom with me. High traffic bathrooms are the least likely place for anything to happen. You have more to worry about in your own home alone, or an isolated office or basement. Even high volume nudist camps are safer than the outside because of the volume of people watching each other.

(July 27, 2017 at 12:46 am)Nymphadora Wrote:

(July 27, 2017 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

I have to agree on this. My doctor is a female for this reason. I don't feel comfortable with any male other than my other half seeing my hoohah. Why would I think I'd be okay with a complete stranger seeing me that way?

Yep, i used to absolutely refuse male gynos bc I didn't want them to see me naked. Unfortunately this little town only has male ones, so I had to get used to it. Still don't like it though.

Quote:Meh, I don't think it's right to tell a woman who feels uncomfortable with a naked biological male showering close to her own naked body that she just needs to "get over it" as though she's being petty or whatever.

For the record, I'm not saying the naked shower thing is a legitimate reason to not let trans folks join. There are ways of solving that issue. I'm just saying I don't like the response of "get over it" to women who would understandably feel uncomfortable being naked around a naked male body who is not her significant other, even if that person identifies as female. I certainly wouldn't.

She is being petty. And no I don't understand it . It's a dick it's not going bit you . I know tons of guys (I also tell them to get over it) who don't like being naked in front of other guys. And woman wo don't like being naked in front of woman . So should they all get there own bathroom . Should someone who feels uncomfortable showering with gay people get there own separate bathroom . How about racists who feel dirty showering with ni77gers should they get there own bathroom . Or do we waste time on shifts be who there people "feel" uncomfortable showering with.

I would have loved to see these people grow up were i lived there were no individual showers . Everyone had to pile into the only building with indoor plumbing once a week (because it was only time the tank was filled) to shower. I had to see dicks and old ladies Virginias as early as 5 . If could handle it full grown woman a soldier none the less can.

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(July 27, 2017 at 12:58 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 27, 2017 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

Holy shit, you stupidly think that is a 1 way thing? When I go into the men's bathroom I don't like rows of stand up urinals with no dividers. If the dividers are not there or too small, I will use a stall instead. 

And you are talking about men who get surgery to become women. You do know there have been women who transitioned to male, who have been beaten up in men's bathrooms because of bigoted assholes.

I could give a shit less who is in the bathroom with me. High traffic bathrooms are the least likely place for anything to happen. You have more to worry about in your own home alone, or an isolated office or basement. Even high volume nudist camps are safer than the outside because of the volume of people watching each other.

Here here .Get over it .

You're comparing a woman feeling uncomfortable being naked in front of a man who is not her husband, to a person feeling uncomfortable being naked in front of someone who is simply of a different race. You're essentially saying I am equivalent to a racist because I don't want other men to see me naked. That's ridiculous. I don't even have a response to that.

(July 27, 2017 at 12:26 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well from my understanding, the disability argument people have been using isn't that trans folks wouldn't be able to perform well. It's that they would need to take a lot of time off for surgeries and therapies, and would not be deployable because the treatments they need aren't available overseas. And there's also the issue of costs to the military that could go towards safer equipment, newer planes, etc. That is their argument as far as "disabilities" goes.  

But again, the way I see it, there's a simple solution to this - don't do these surgeries/therapies while on active duty status, don't include reassignment surgery in the insurance plan. I personally don't see how banning all trans people outright is necessary here. If that's the only argument they have, that's a pretty weak one IMHO.

I wouldn't ever expect the military to cover surgeries like that, but why not things like therapy? The base I was on had a great system for all sorts of mental and physical therapy that was provided to the troops. It wouldn't be an extra burden at all. And as I noted before, hormone treatment is also very inexpensive. Nothing but surgery would be a game changer here.

Yeah, i dont see a problem with covering hormone therapy in a financial sense. The problem may come if the hormone therapy kept the person from being deployed for a long period of time when they otherwise should have deployed.

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I think someone on the facebook comments i posted said theyd be undeployable for 1 1/2 years. If that's true, I see the issue there.

(July 27, 2017 at 1:21 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yeah, i dont see a problem with covering hormone therapy in a financial sense. The problem may come if the hormone therapy kept the person from being deployed for a long period of time when they otherwise should have deployed.

There's very little health risks from it. The only minor thing that has ever been mentioned to me is a slightly higher risk of blood clots, but that is lessened by the occasional blood tests for hormone levels. Soldiers often take medications for various things that have worse risk factors than that, so I see no reason why this would stop anyone from a deployment.

Oh yeah. Smoking cigarettes adds a far higher risk, but smokers are absolutely allowed to deploy. There's some food for thought.

Im not sure either. That's what they were saying, but perhaps they are wrong.

(July 27, 2017 at 12:16 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Meh, I don't think it's right to tell a woman who feels uncomfortable with a naked biological male showering close to her own naked body that she just needs to "get over it" as though she's being petty or whatever.  

According to you all male to female transsexuals are 'biological males'. You seem to continue having this idea in mind that all of them are basically men in drag. You are a bigot solely because you refuse to accept any new information which would mean that you have to change how you perceive other segments of the population.

And while we're on the matter, I didn't want to bump the old thread where I was criticised for saying that we're all female in the womb and then some become male·due to expression of the Y chromosome and hormonal washes, but a link to this was posted to the thinking atheist soon after so I bookmarked it for the next time you use the whole 'biological male' thing to hang your entire argument on

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(July 27, 2017 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

Strawman argument. Who is suggesting that women have to shower with another male body?

Or do you have some kind of super power allowing you to read the DNA of every person that you meet? If so, how do you feel when you find yourself in a public shower with someone with an intersex condition such as Androgen insensitivity syndrome that people without your superpower would never realise?