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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 27, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Quote:Well personally im an atheist and im not too sure that I support abortion. Ill confess I dont know alot about the debate in genral and when a fetus becomes a person but it seems to me and forgive me if i misrepresent that the only agrument im seeing is "well he belives in god so that automically makes all his points invalid." just what it seems like.
(July 27, 2011 at 11:05 am)edk141 Wrote: Well it makes God-related arguments invalid, obviously.
For example, if he says "LIFE STARTS AT CONCEPTION CUZ POPE SAID SO ZOMGWTFBBQ" that argument is invalid.
Arguments Christians make are always based on the Bible, which is why they are bullshit. A pro-life argument that didn't require the Bible to make sense would still be bullshit, but it wouldn't be so obviously bullshit so people might discuss it more.
everyone keeps saying that he says "god says so and so it is true!" but he has never said that! He hasn't used the Bible or God's authority once to try to prove something to me, but rather has been arguing the whole time from reason alone. Show me one spot in all of my posts so far where I've quoted him using that argument? If you can't do that then please start showing the arguments the respect they deserve.
Thank you rhythem for actually making a good post with some real discussion on the argument. I only have a second right now so I'll have to try to make it by later to talk some more.
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 27, 2011 at 4:07 pm
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2011 at 4:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yep, btw, you can always remind him that if he would like for a fetus to be given the same rights as a human being, there's probably a special interest group or lobby he can support. Until the fetus is granted such status, it's not murder, it's abortion. It's not a question of morality, only legality.
The whole "basis of morality" thing is a classic "gotcha" type argument that we field alot here (I say alot and I've only been here a little while, I feel for others), that riles people up, and then we get the same old built in fundie crew popping in to offer their favorite translations of moral authority, it's not you, per se, it's the environment..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 27, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Quote:no one seems to be taking this guy too seriously and seem to sort of act as if his arguments are just nonsense automatically without really giving them a decent look.
You're quite wrong there. I was raised catholic and decided that it was just as stupid as the jews and moslems and hindus and all the other faiths which catholicism TOLD ME WERE WRONG.
They took their best shot with me and I rejected them and their god-based arguments because at the end of the day their god is no more real than any one else's god. And, btw, that was before we knew that they were sodomizing children on an institutional basis and having their hierarchy cover up the crimes.
Why are you having trouble understanding that? You say you are dealing with a guy who is making faith based arguments and you wonder why a room full of atheists is having trouble with it?
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 28, 2011 at 1:48 pm
(July 27, 2011 at 4:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Until the fetus is granted such status, it's not murder, it's abortion. It's not a question of morality, only legality. The law isn't a moral authority, no. If I think it's morally murder then for me it is: elective abortion struggles to be a justified reason for taking a life. Although it's relatively simple and legal to do.
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 29, 2011 at 8:00 am
Hurny, think of it this way. If the catholic dude is right, then original sin would exist. In that case the unborn lump of cells would not be innocent at all.
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 29, 2011 at 12:12 pm
Quote:The law isn't a moral authority, no.
The "law" in any society is most certainly the moral authority, Frods.
I know you'd prefer the rantings of your alleged fairy god father but there is precious little morality in your fucking bible.
As for the catholics, they look to Herr Von Popenfuhrer for moral guidance....the man who shuffled pervert priests around Munich. So much for catholic assholes.
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 29, 2011 at 1:27 pm
(This post was last modified: July 29, 2011 at 1:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
To elaborate. In any civilized country "law" is the moral authority, but we do understand that these laws are malleable, and so it is not "absolute moral authority". There's an important difference between those two very similar concepts. I do understand the desire for absolute moral authority. If we were presented with such a thing (and we had sufficient reason to accept that it was accurate), it would be nice to have, we'd all be on the same page, but we simply haven't found such a thing as of yet.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 29, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Hey I was agreeing with Rhythm... I'll hold your coats  
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 30, 2011 at 12:59 am
(July 29, 2011 at 8:00 am)Kayenneh Wrote: Hurny, think of it this way. If the catholic dude is right, then original sin would exist. In that case the unborn lump of cells would not be innocent at all.
This made me think of something. How come Catholics don't baptize zygotes? After all, if they are human, then they will go to hell if the woman has a miscarriage.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Help with a Catholic
July 30, 2011 at 2:06 am
Quote:How come Catholics don't baptize zygotes?
Good question. Why don't they conduct a homicide investigation every time a woman mis-carries?
Oh....they can't.
http://stupidevilbastard.com/2011/02/pro...al-crimes/
Quote: Ga. Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages – Mother Jones
Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin—who last year proposed making rape and domestic violence “victims” into “accusers”—has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any “prenatal murder” in the words of the bill, including “human involvement” in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death. Basically, it’s everything an “pro-life” activist could want aside from making all women who’ve had abortions wear big red “A”s on their chests.
I doubt that a bill that makes a legal medical procedure liable for the death penalty will pass. The bill, however, shows an astonishing lack of concern for women’s health and well-being. Under Rep. Franklin’s bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was “no human involvement whatsoever in the causation” of their miscarriage. There is no clarification of what “human involvement” means, and this is hugely problematic as medical doctors do not know exactly what causes miscarriages. Miscarriages are estimated to terminate up to a quarter of all pregnancies and the Mayo Clinic says that “the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn’t even know she’s pregnant. Most miscarriages occur because the fetus isn’t developing normally.”
G-C's cocksucking baptist buddies already thought of it and catholics prefer to create their own abominations!
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