Snowflake: someone who whines when statues of seditious traitors who fought for the institutions of slavery are finally taken down.

(August 19, 2017 at 2:55 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: So Adolf can't defend his nonsense (big surprise ) And instead of manning up and admitting he's wrong . Attacks the people who point it out . And raves about Stalinist conspiracies.

Which in the context of this thread is hilarious



Two men destroying Stalin statue

THEY SHOULDN'T DO THAT THAT IS VANDALISM!

Meanwhile in right wing La La land, keep monuments to defending 400 years of brutal slavery. MEH, that's "heritage".


Here is the bullshit part our far right dont get. If preserving history is what you want, the only thing we object to is leaving up the context of treating them as good and moral and heros, because slave owners were not good, moral or heros.

A have said countless times, if you put them in Museums in the context of "Don't own other humans", then that serves as a valid reminder of what not to do to other humans.

(August 19, 2017 at 3:15 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Snowflake: someone who whines when statues of seditious traitors who fought for the institutions of slavery are finally taken down.

I am of the opinion of not erasing memories from fascist dumbfucks to preserve them. I don't want to preserve them as idols, just as a reminder of what they did before, lest we forget.

Example: Should we level down Auchwitz because of the atrocities commited there or shall we keep it to remind future generations?

When slave owners shipped blacks to the colonies, if their ship hit bad weather or their ballest(sp) got lopsided, instead of throwing other supplies off the ship, they would throw chained blacks into the water and they would drowned ALIVE.

If your slave ran from you, you had the right to murder them, because they were your property.

I really think everyone should read the plaques and inscriptions at the bases of these monuments before they complain about their being relocated.

Oh and I am not right wing. Before brian starts his usual histrionics again.

(August 19, 2017 at 3:25 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 3:15 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Snowflake: someone who whines when statues of seditious traitors who fought for the institutions of slavery are finally taken down.

I am of the opinion of not erasing memories from fascist dumbfucks to preserve them. I don't want to preserve them as idols, just as a reminder of what they did before, lest we forget.

Example: Should we level down Auchwitz because of the atrocities commited there or shall we keep it to remind future generations?

Jews would disagree. They hate Hitler as much as you and I do. The more generations that pass over time, the more distance society gets from those horrible events. The problem with not keeping a reminder of what not to do in museums and history books, is that over time humans forget. Once the abused can become the abuser.

Jews would tell you the Ann Frank house and the DC Holocaust Museum are good things and they keep them as warnings not to repeat history.

If we totally erased the entire 400 year history of black slavery in America, and erased all records of the Civil War both North and South, what is to prevent a society, ANYWHERE ELSE in the world from doing the same say in 1,000 years.

I don't believe in hiding the dark side of our species. Not any side. Not when whites do it to blacks, not when Germans did it to Jews. 

You know the old saying, "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it."

Question: How much history do we actually learn from these graven images? "That guy in the park? No clue."

You know most of our history words like "Pilgrims and settlers" was widely used in teaching in public schools? Well if others didn't take care to keep records of say "The trail of tears"nobody today would be able to say Natives got the short end of the stick.

It isn't about gilt tripping, it isn't about political correctness. It is the same attitude most atheists have about accepting reality. Most of us would rather accept a harsh reality than live a delusion.

By knowing our past and looking at all of it unvarnished, it helps us as a guide into the future.

Yeah, the common counter-argument is "Well, many of the Founders owned slaves, and you celebrate them!"  But, we don't celebrate them for their slave ownership, but rather despite it.  And, as someone who's lived all their life in one of the original colonies, I'd actually have no problem removing statues of Washington, Jefferson, et al. because the ideas of liberty are more important than the men who were often self-contradictory regarding actual liberty.  I also feel that the quasi-religious deference we have for them is dangerous.

More to the point: we don't celebrate losers.  That may sound harsh, but celebrating people on the losing side of a civil war - especially when that side's motive was to perpetuate a slave state - is unique.  You can point to the generalized bravery of people willing to die to defend their homes, but whatever nobility is derived from that pales in comparison to slavery and the generations of racism - oppressive and often violent - in the aftermath.

And let's not kid ourselves.  These symbols were largely created to remind the black population of their place in Southern society.  They were cheaply and hastily built during Jim Crow as an expression of ubiquitous white power.  That's the heritage on display.  It's not only a reverence for those who died supporting an ignoble cause, but a demonstration of the still-remaining power of the white population in contrast to the black.

None of it is worth saving, outside of a museum or two where slavery and the culture around it are rightfully presented in the most negative light.  Everything else should be torn down.

---

(August 19, 2017 at 3:25 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 3:15 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Snowflake: someone who whines when statues of seditious traitors who fought for the institutions of slavery are finally taken down.

I am of the opinion of not erasing memories from fascist dumbfucks to preserve them. I don't want to preserve them as idols, just as a reminder of what they did before, lest we forget.

Example: Should we level down Auchwitz because of the atrocities commited there or shall we keep it to remind future generations?

Museums serve this purpose.

(August 19, 2017 at 3:27 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Oh and I am not right wing. Before brian starts his usual histrionics again.

I know that. I was just disagreeing about erasing all record. No I would not get rid of all of it. I would simply change the context from hero worship to "this guy, this group were violent assholes".

Think about why North Korean citizens hate us so much. Outside the top levels, for 50 years plus most of their population only gets fed what their government tells them. That is what having no record in a broader scope looks like. They only know what their government indoctrinates them with. 

If you have absolutely no record at all, those in power can very easily lead you down dark roads.

I know you are not right wing at all. I was disagreeing with erasing all traces of an event. 

I have no problems with you. I like you.