You'd be right, but then again, did someone like myself, who would criticize them either way, force them to accept the sort of worldview that leads to exactly this sort of moral dilemma, no....we did not.

(August 2, 2011 at 3:42 pm)Skeptic Wrote: The thing is, if I were a Christian I'd get the feeling that no matter what I answered I'd be attacked for my answer.

Attacked or questioned? Cause honestly, there's a big difference.

Quote:Attacked or questioned? Cause honestly, there's a big difference.

They regard any questioning of their dogma as an attack. It's part of the fundie mindset.

Not a single response from a christian, eh? I'd be disappointed if it wasn't exactly what I've already encountered. Oh well.

They sense a trap.

(August 2, 2011 at 2:07 am)Veracity Wrote: Hello there, this is only my second post here and I don't have a clear idea of how many christians hang around these parts so this could end up being completely irrelevant. Advanced apologies if that scenario plays true.

I've never received a straight answer on this from a christian. They either go out of their way to qualify a yes with a no, or say 'it would be against god's plan' and stop at that. Maybe I'll get some insight from some ex-christians here at the very least.

If you were present and capable of saving Jesus from his crucifixion - or at least capable of attempting, knowing all you know about the man, that he's your savior - would you try to save him from his fate? And just so it's clear, the question isn't about whether or not it's against god's will or plan, the question is would you save a man from murder that you consider your savior and reason for being?

Of course, this is obviously asked from a strictly christian perspective. But to set the record straight, as an atheist with absolutely no affinity towards Jesus, the answer is crystal clear to me. I'd save the man in a heart beat. So why is it that christians struggle so much in coming up with an answer for this one? Is it selfishness? Would they let the man they consider responsible for their 'salvation' die in order to receive said salvation?

Also, apologies if there's already a thread around here similar to this. I did search for it but came up with nothing.

Hope you find this answer to your satisfaction, first of all you are talking about time travel to the past and that's impossible so I could not if I desired to. But let's look at this as from the point you asked the question from. No I would not, why, because knowing all that I do of why Jesus died for me it would be an act of selfishness, to do what you suggest would be to make myself look and feel good, I would be depriving others of salvation not to mention my self. Who am I to interfer with what God has decided to do for mankind. Jesus explained to his disciples that He would be crucified and when the time came they did not try and stop it and neither would you, you as all others would have been shaking in your sandals as the Romans crucified Him, believe what you like, but the truth is you would not have, for the fear of your own life. Besides to be murdered ones life must be taken when one is unwilling to die, Jesus on the other hand said that he was willingly giving His life " no one takes My life I willingly give it in love for mankind." So you see I do not struggle with your question, I accept what Christ has done for myself and all of mankind.

(August 3, 2011 at 3:48 am)Godschild Wrote:

(August 2, 2011 at 2:07 am)Veracity Wrote: Hello there, this is only my second post here and I don't have a clear idea of how many christians hang around these parts so this could end up being completely irrelevant. Advanced apologies if that scenario plays true.

I've never received a straight answer on this from a christian. They either go out of their way to qualify a yes with a no, or say 'it would be against god's plan' and stop at that. Maybe I'll get some insight from some ex-christians here at the very least.

If you were present and capable of saving Jesus from his crucifixion - or at least capable of attempting, knowing all you know about the man, that he's your savior - would you try to save him from his fate? And just so it's clear, the question isn't about whether or not it's against god's will or plan, the question is would you save a man from murder that you consider your savior and reason for being?

Of course, this is obviously asked from a strictly christian perspective. But to set the record straight, as an atheist with absolutely no affinity towards Jesus, the answer is crystal clear to me. I'd save the man in a heart beat. So why is it that christians struggle so much in coming up with an answer for this one? Is it selfishness? Would they let the man they consider responsible for their 'salvation' die in order to receive said salvation?

Also, apologies if there's already a thread around here similar to this. I did search for it but came up with nothing.

Hope you find this answer to your satisfaction, first of all you are talking about time travel to the past and that's impossible so I could not if I desired to. But let's look at this as from the point you asked the question from. No I would not, why, because knowing all that I do of why Jesus died for me it would be an act of selfishness, to do what you suggest would be to make myself look and feel good, I would be depriving others of salvation not to mention my self. Who am I to interfer with what God has decided to do for mankind. Jesus explained to his disciples that He would be crucified and when the time came they did not try and stop it and neither would you, you as all others would have been shaking in your sandals as the Romans crucified Him, believe what you like, but the truth is you would not have, for the fear of your own life. Besides to be murdered ones life must be taken when one is unwilling to die, Jesus on the other hand said that he was willingly giving His life " no one takes My life I willingly give it in love for mankind." So you see I do not struggle with your question, I accept what Christ has done for myself and all of mankind.

So the salvation of others is more important than the life of your savior. Admirably by your book, at least. It's not satisfactory though. I find your sense of altruism intriguing but ultimately false. Looking good has nothing to do with respecting all human life. Has your boy taught you nothing? Who exactly would you be trying to look good for, anyhow? Also, you seem like you're projecting fairly hard when you question whether or not I or anyone else would be capable of making an attempt to interfere with his execution. If it's not within you to try and save a life from an unjust end, simply state that. Don't assume the rest of us are cowards. I realize the act of sacrificing one for the supposed good of the rest is deeply embedded within you as a christian, but it's not just one we're talking about here. It's your savior/martyr. It's the man you believe to have faced a gruesome, prolonged murder when he was simply trying to spread truth. Would a man such as Jesus be unable to find a better way, a more enlightening and less emotional/fear driven way to display his love for 'us'? Surely in your eyes there would've been benefits to Jesus having a few more days in his life at the very least.

I mean, maybe he could've put this plan back in the cooker for awhile and discussed the recipe with his father one more time. Surely it should've been the perfect plan, no? But if it were perfect, would forums like these exist?

Kudos for having the balls to give me a first straight answer.

Whats up, you didn't think I was serious when I said that large sums of money could sway me either way? I got mouths to feed.

Firstly, besides the fact that the Biblical Jesus never existed, the mythological fable about him indicates he was not murdered. He committed suicide.

And as god incarnate, i.e. a so -god, all things happening as god's will, no! I wouldn't save him from himself.
He was god. He knew what he was doing from before he sent an angel to rape Mary, so he could be born in the flesh and work his miracles as a semi-human man. Which is fascinating when one thinks about the poor story line that entails, given "in the beginning" god created all from nothing but his will and deific powers and millions ...oops, a few thousand years later, decided he'd save the world from himself but needed to find a mortal woman in order to start that process.


No, I wouldn't save god/Jesus from committing suicide. However, if I could go back I'd see about convincing the mothers of the near 40 authors of the Bible to practice abortion so as to save the world from elitist cult terrorism spawned by bad fiction.

(August 3, 2011 at 10:47 am)Rhythm Wrote: Whats up, you didn't think I was serious when I said that large sums of money could sway me either way? I got mouths to feed.

You should really get a job. Or ask Adrian to cut you in on a little coke dealing.