Quote:Why not, if it makes me feel good..it's The Only Real Right™.....

You are actually right here. As long as it makes you feel a positive emotion, then that would be the only real good in your life then. On a further note, could it be possible that it is just people like me who don't have this thought form of emotion while others do? Perhaps these other people really are having positive and negative experiences through their thoughts alone independent of their euphoric and dysphoric states that can be just as profound and powerful as their euphoric and dysphoric states. In which case, I have never had these new types of emotions in my life and I have also never had this new version of good and bad either which, according to you, was the real good and bad all along. Or, it could be the case that these other people have been taught wrong and are deluded into thinking they have real emotions and real good and bad value in their lives independent of their euphoric and dysphoric states.

Quote:If you try to convince people of your worldview by insisting that the sex offenders satisfaction is a moral good, and then bitching about how people are being mean to you....you're going to be treated even more poorly.

Fine then. I don't care. As long as it makes them feel positive emotions. However, I wouldn't want to be around these types of people though. I would much rather prefer being around people such as my therapist and my family who do treat me kindly.

(October 1, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: You are actually right here.  As long as it makes you feel a positive emotion, then that would be the only real good in your life then.  On a further note, could it be possible that it is just people like me who don't have this thought form of emotion while others do?  Perhaps these other people really are having positive and negative experiences through their thoughts alone independent of their euphoric and dysphoric states that can be just as profound and powerful as their euphoric and dysphoric states.  In which case, I have never had these new types of emotions in my life and I have also never had this new version of good and bad either which, according to you, was the real good and bad all along.  Or, it could be the case that these other people have been taught wrong and are deluded into thinking they have real emotions and real good and bad value in their lives independent of their euphoric and dysphoric states.

Excellent, progress.  Now sex offense, and me shitting on you..are both Real Good™.  At least we're working with some consistency.  

Quote:Fine then.  I don't care.  As long as it makes them feel positive emotions.  However, I wouldn't want to be around these types of people though.  I would much rather prefer being around people such as my therapist and my family who do treat me kindly.

Why wouldn't you want to be around people whose actions you've defined as good?  You'd rather be with people who coddle you, than good people?

Here's a fun question, if I stop you from doing a bad thing..namely you taking action to prevent a sex offenders satisfaction....am I doing a good thing?

I'm legitimately amused that you think that convincing other people of your worldview will lead to them -not- treating you like shit. Your worldview is a moral justification -for- treating you..and everyone else,....like shit. So good luck with that. For some odd reason, I doubt that your mother or your therapist would coddle you if you expressed the opinions you've expressed here.

(October 1, 2017 at 1:51 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(October 1, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: You are actually right here.  As long as it makes you feel a positive emotion, then that would be the only real good in your life then.  On a further note, could it be possible that it is just people like me who don't have this thought form of emotion while others do?  Perhaps these other people really are having positive and negative experiences through their thoughts alone independent of their euphoric and dysphoric states that can be just as profound and powerful as their euphoric and dysphoric states.  In which case, I have never had these new types of emotions in my life and I have also never had this new version of good and bad either which, according to you, was the real good and bad all along.  Or, it could be the case that these other people have been taught wrong and are deluded into thinking they have real emotions and real good and bad value in their lives independent of their euphoric and dysphoric states.

Excellent, progress.  Now sex offense, and me shitting on you..are both Real Good™.  At least we're working with some consistency.  

Quote:Fine then.  I don't care.  As long as it makes them feel positive emotions.  However, I wouldn't want to be around these types of people though.  I would much rather prefer being around people such as my therapist and my family who do treat me kindly.

Why wouldn't you want to be around people whose actions you've defined as good?  You'd rather be with people who coddle you, than good people?

Here's a fun question, if I stop you from doing a bad thing..namely you taking action to prevent a sex offenders satisfaction....am I doing a good thing?

Here is how my model would all work out.  If there was a sex offender who felt a positive emotion from raping someone, then that would be something good from the sex offender's perspective.  But if we felt a negative emotion from that, then it would be something bad from our perspective.  So, it is whatever situation, thing, or moment we feel euphoric or dysphoric from that would be the good or bad situation, thing, or moment from our perspective.

Oh boy, now The Only Real Good™ changes with perspective.  How does your model account for those whose perspective is that the only Real Good is stoic good?  How about people whose perspective is that positive emotional reinforcement is not a uniform indication of goodness or decency in the first place.  That addiction is not a moral good, for example, just because heroin gives you the good feels.

Is it really so difficult, so painful for you...to just say that you think the sex offenders satisfaction is a bad thing..that you would prevent..and that just maybe, you hadn't really thought this through? That you don't want to convince anyone of your wordview..if they plan on applying your worldview....to you......

-If this is going to devolve into an invocation of absolute moral relativism...when it started out as a claim that there was only one real type of good.....then why seek enlighentment in your worldview at all, particularly when you could achieve the same euphoria from sex offense or heroin?

(October 1, 2017 at 2:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Oh boy, now The Only Real Good™ changes with perspective.  How does your model account for those whose perspective is that the only Real Good is stoic good?  How about people whose perspective is that positive emotional reinforcement is not a uniform indication of goodness or decency in the first place.  That addiction is not a moral good, for example, just because heroin gives you the good feels.

Is it really so difficult, so painful for you...to just say that you think the sex offenders satisfaction is a bad thing..that you would prevent..and that just maybe, you hadn't really thought this through?  That you don't want to convince anyone of your wordview..if they plan on applying your worldview....to you......
\
If this is going to devolve into an invocation of absolute moral relativism...when it started out as a claim that there was only one real type of good.....then why seek enlighentment in your worldview, particularly when you could achieve the same euphoria from sex offense?

My model would say that those stoic people are deluding themselves and have the wrong definition of good.  All those other people you've mentioned would, again, be like blind people thinking of the color red, but having no red in their lives.  So, again, they would be deluding themselves into thinking they have a real version of good value independent of positive emotions.  As for people using my worldview against me such as calling me names since it makes them feel positive emotions, then I still have no objections to my worldview.  In regards to the question in your final sentence, I would still not make foolish choices such as being a sex offender just to get enhanced euphoric states from raping someone.  If enlightenment in my worldview made me feel a positive emotion, then that would be real good value in my life along with doing all of my other hobbies which would also have real good value in my life as well providing that I could feel positive emotions from them.

(October 1, 2017 at 2:12 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: My model would say that those stoic people are deluding themselves and have the wrong definition of good. 

So The Only Real Good doesn't change with perspective after all.  Pick a story, and stick to it.  We're back to the sex offenders satisfaction being part of The Only Real Good, and opposition to the sex offenders satisfaction being bad. Not a whole lot of variable perspective there.

Quote:All those other people you've mentioned would, again, be like blind people thinking of the color red, but having no red in their lives. 

Why would they be?  Just because a person doesn't think that the satisfaction of fucking children is a good thing, like you do..doesn't mean they can't experience emotions....I;d suggest that between the two...yourself and them...they're not the ones with a developmental or emotional disability.

Quote:So, again, they would be deluding themselves into thinking they have a real version of good value independent of positive emotions. 

I know right, how could they get it so wrong.  Isn't it -obvious- that child fucking is The Real Good..and that their little opposition to child fucking is deluded?

Quote:As for people using my worldview against me such as calling me names since it makes them feel positive emotions, then I still have no objections to my worldview. 

Oh come on now, you clearly do.  You just stopped pouting.  Is dishonesty an indicator of a kind and considerate person, do you think? I guess that would fit the emerging pattern. / shrugs

Quote:In regards to the question in your final sentence, I would still not make foolish choices such as being a sex offender just to get enhanced euphoric states from raping someone. 

What's foolish about doing a good thing?  -Just- to get euphoric states...?  Now wait a minute.... those good fee fees are The Only Real Good...and.......

Quote:If enlightenment in my worldview made me feel a positive emotion, then that would be real good value in my life along with doing all of my other hobbies which would also have real good value in my life as well providing that I could feel positive emotions from them.

......yeah, that.  See, sex offense has real good value in their lives along with all of their other hobbies.  Maybe a little human trafficking here and there...some cannibalism, and also laughing at you.

Quote:I know right, how could they get it so wrong. Isn't it -obvious- that child fucking is The Real Good..and that their little opposition to child fucking is deluded?

First off, I am still sticking by my idea that whatever situation we feel positive or negative emotions from is the situation that is good or bad from the individual's point of view. Now, the positive emotions themselves would be sheer goodness since they are like the inner light to our being and lives. But that does not mean my model would say something such as: "Go rape a child since that is something good." My model doesn't focus on situations. Rather, it just focuses on the idea that our positive emotions are the inner light. This means that we just do whatever. Personally, I would still make the choice to not only make decisions that would promote my positive emotional experience, but would also make those types of decisions that wouldn't get me into trouble such as doing drugs.

Emotions themselves are intrinsically good and bad, yes.

The reason for those emotions depends. You can have an evil reason to experience happiness, and a just reason to experience anger/hate.

(October 1, 2017 at 3:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: First off, I am still sticking by my idea that whatever situation we feel positive or negative emotions from is the situation that is good or bad from the individual's point of view.  Now, the positive emotions themselves would be sheer goodness since they are like the inner light to our being and lives.  But that does not mean my model would say something such as:  "Go rape a child since that is something good."

-and yet your model does say that.  You're uncomfortable with it...but so what? Is your model accurate or not?  

Quote:My model doesn't focus on situations.

Then I doubt it's value in situational ethics or morality.

Quote:Rather, it just focuses on the idea that our positive emotions are the inner light.  This means that we just do whatever.  Personally, I would still make the choice to not only make decisions that would promote my positive emotional experience, but would also make those types of decisions that wouldn't get me into trouble such as doing drugs.

What's a little trouble for The Real Good?  Just doing whatever is probably the laziest form of hedonism imaginable, incapable of achieving even it's own self stated goals.  This is not a system of morality in any case, of real goods or real bads or even fake or deluded ones.  It's just pleasure seeking approached ammorally.

Try ethical hedonism, then you won't have to twist your scrote into knots for being on the side of sex offense as goodness.

(October 1, 2017 at 4:17 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(October 1, 2017 at 3:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: First off, I am still sticking by my idea that whatever situation we feel positive or negative emotions from is the situation that is good or bad from the individual's point of view.  Now, the positive emotions themselves would be sheer goodness since they are like the inner light to our being and lives.  But that does not mean my model would say something such as:  "Go rape a child since that is something good."

-and yet your model does say that.  You're uncomfortable with it...but so what? Is your model accurate or not?  

Quote:My model doesn't focus on situations.

Then I doubt it's value in situational ethics or morality.

Quote:Rather, it just focuses on the idea that our positive emotions are the inner light.  This means that we just do whatever.  Personally, I would still make the choice to not only make decisions that would promote my positive emotional experience, but would also make those types of decisions that wouldn't get me into trouble such as doing drugs.

What's a little trouble for The Real Good?  Just doing whatever is probably the laziest form of hedonism imaginable, incapable of achieving even it's own self stated goals.  This is not a system of morality in any case, of real goods or real bads or even fake or deluded ones.  It's just pleasure seeking approached ammorally.

Try ethical hedonism, then you won't have to twist your scrote into knots for being on the side of sex offense as goodness.

First off, in regards to my tone to you and everyone else here earlier, just forget about that.  I was just under some stressful moment there.  But your comment has uplifted me out of that stressful moment and the discussion took a change in mood (atmosphere). Now, what if I said that things and situations do hold their own good and bad values and that, in order to see these good and bad values, that this requires our own inner goodness (light) and badness (darkness)? Without our inner light and darkness (positive and negative emotions), then we would just simply be like blind people thinking of the color red without any real red within our conscious being. Having this version of my worldview would not make me out to be some immoral person to be frowned upon and looked down upon.