(October 13, 2017 at 3:05 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Once again, the idiocy of Christianity is laid bare.

God doesn't want people to wind up in hell or (depending on what version of the tripe you swallow) at the very least doesn't want people to be separated from him in the next life.
Yet, he's unwilling to reveal himself to the world so people actually know he's there.  He relies on faith and fervor.
Of course, this is a choice.  God has apparently decided that free will, and free acceptance of him, is preferable, even though that means untold billions will suffer.
And none of this even remotely answers the obvious question: why does such a powerful entity want the company of lesser, flawed creatures for all eternity anyway?

The whole thing is just moronic in the extreme.  That anyone actually thinks it's real boggles the mind.

(October 13, 2017 at 3:57 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If God is unwilling to reveal himself to the world then who was Jesus Christ?

Quote:If you took the time to listen to the above, then it's apparent that God does reveal himself, but he always only done so through the use of prophets.

(October 13, 2017 at 3:55 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -but it does obliviate any coherent or meaningful notion that the choice is free.  If the future can be known, then you cannot choose otherwise.  If you could choose otherwise...then the future cannot be known.

What's more important to you?  Our free will or gods omniscience?

(October 13, 2017 at 4:10 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Huggy, you couldn't pay me to sit through nearly 2 hours of religious drivel.

We live in an interconnected world.  Your god is, supposedly, omnipotent and omniscient.  Surely he could spread his message - even through a proxy - in this world with little trouble if he actually gave a shit.

Jesus was 2000 years ago.  He was the dial-up of prophets.  Where's the Fios version?

(October 13, 2017 at 4:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 13, 2017 at 3:55 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -but it does obliviate any coherent or meaningful notion that the choice is free.  If the future can be known, then you cannot choose otherwise.  If you could choose otherwise...then the future cannot be known.

What's more important to you?  Our free will or gods omniscience?

Nonsense, Say I knew you were going to type the above statement, that in no way infringes on your choice to type it.

God is timeless, so past and future really don't exist.

(October 13, 2017 at 4:34 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Honestly, to argue against your demonstrable ignorance of the problems of free will and omniscience...you;re going to insist that there is is no past........ and no future?  

I have a simpler answer.

(October 13, 2017 at 4:53 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 13, 2017 at 4:34 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Honestly, to argue against your demonstrable ignorance of the problems of free will and omniscience...you;re going to insist that there is is no past........ and no future?  

I have a simpler answer.

It seems someone doesn't understand the concept of timelessness.

If time doesn't exist, then there is no previous time, or later time, hence no past or future.

PAST AND FUTURE ARE DESCRIPTORS OF TIME!

got it?

(October 11, 2017 at 9:13 am)SisterAgatha Wrote: Now, I know as atheists you people probably don't believe in Hell.

(October 11, 2017 at 9:13 am)SisterAgatha Wrote: Now, I know as atheists you people probably don't believe in Hell.

Funny enough many religious people don't either. Many Christians really don't either.

I used to be among their number. I always thought God loved everybody so much that there is no way he would really send anyone to Hell forever.

I used to think this way but I am not sure I do anymore. I know atheists think its sort of a cop-out when Christians say people "Send themselves" to Hell. Unfortunately I think this is true though.

Why? Because people send themselves to Hell in this life.

Ironically I don't think the atrocities and horror of living on planet earth (the holocaust, hurricane katrina, AIDS epidemic, war etc.) are really good depictions of Hell. Even in the midst of horrors and tragedies often people find it in themselves to love and care for each other and still see the silverzlining in a pitch black cloud.

A better understanding or visualization of Hell (and Hell to come) is just how other sinful people behave n this life, how they relate to other people, and honestly how they relate to themselves. 

There indeed are people in this life who don't give their fellow man, their family, or the world around them so much as a thought. They are ruled by spite and selfishness, and at times enjoy being cruel and hateful to other people. 

We see this attitude in spouses who commit adultery, in children and parents who are mean and hateful to each other just for the sake of it, cutthroat people trying to get ahead, and people who really have no time whatever for generosity, compassion, or a worldview that involves the feelings and lives of others apart from themselves.

I honestly feel that to be without love, unable to give it or receive it is Hell's truest manifestation, and I honestly would be scared to end up there.

I said it earlier, but my idea of God is that he is pure love. Not that he loves sometimes, or loves some people and hates others but he honestly is love to it's deepest core.


I was just talking with one of my fellow nuns, Sister Bellarmine.



She really is having a problem with one of the students in her class, sort of a roguish prankster by the name of Billy Flanagan.



According to sister, Billy causes her no end of trouble. He sometimes is caught spitting spit balls at other children, claims his "dog ate his homework" , sometimes steals chalk and other office supplies, and well..can be a bit "too fresh" with his female classmates. Personally I feel he is a charming, good hearted but irresponsible young man who could use direction in his life. "Charming Billy" is my nickname for him.



Unforuntately Sister Bellarmine is convinced he will go to Hell if he continues on his current road.



We were having tea in her office one Friday evening (we nuns sure know how to party huh  ?!)



We were discussing Hell. The bible doesn't exactly say what Hell is like, and so I asked that question to her.



She smiled, sipped her tea, holding her teacup with her big sausage fingers (she honestly could be a football player if she wasn't a nun!) and told me this account:



Imagine you are a criminal led to a judge, the most beautfiful and kind judge in the world. You are guilty of a plethora of crimes against him. Because of the judge's great virtue your punishment will be great.



Imagine being led by really strong and muscular guards being dragged to what appears to be a very large Oven. You hear cries and moans coming from within and the smell of burning flesh. You panic when you are lead to the oven struggling and screaming for all your might but the guards do not acknowledge your fear. The doors are flung open and the smoke,heat and burning flesh overpowers you.



"Please IM so sorry!" You will shriek when the judge comes to watch your sentence. The judge quietly and sadly shakes his head, as if to tell you you had plenty of time to say your sorry before. Now it is simply too late.



You are flung in with all the other starved dehydrated prisoners and the door is slammed shut. Here there are no amusements, no fun, and no hope and no purpose in life. The other people are so depressed and hopeless that they will likely be mean and nasty to you. Showing you no kindness and perhaps enjoying your suffering.



The heat, the hunger, the thirst and the utter lack of love are overpowering. After a few minutes you will cry in despair and say "when? when will we be let out? How long will this last?" The other wizened human corpes will stare at you with vacant eyes.. eyes brimming with despair and sorrow and say "Never. Forever!" Oh how you will shriek and cry when that happens!



The horrifying thing is though, according to Sister, is that if that event were to happen IRL there would be an end to it. Death and the possibility of heaven. Think of it going on forever though. After awhile you'd likely rip your face off in anguish and agony.


I believe Sister Bellarmine has a good heart and means well. But I find her a bit too grim at times, and her preoccupation with the suffering of the damned..a bit creepy. Billy needs to behave himself, but I doubt telling him a horror story will whip him into shape. She is a good colleague and a holy and pious woman but I do feel I need to broaden my social circle a bit more...