My point in a country with a big coruption grade , people aren t scared by law.

(October 15, 2017 at 4:45 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote:

(October 15, 2017 at 1:01 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote: Well considering that there is nothing unique to religion that is good, I am calling bullshit on your argument, if you could even call it one.

So are you saying that if religion will suddenly disapear , people that depend emotionally on it won't be affected ?

You do have a point. If religion suddenly disappeared, yes.
But we aren't talking magic here, so we are assuming religion will fade out by natural means, not "poof!"

(October 14, 2017 at 7:54 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: I think that it wouldn't do anything good! 
Well it is posible to lead the world in chaos but not something good will come out of it .

Hi everyone, just created an account.

Please forgive if I am not following some obvious rules. I should read some of the previous posts and all, I'm just bored and try to refine my views. I respect every person's views and believe that I myself am probably wrong at some place. I believe that thoughts differ in their quality like the hardness of material. The question is not wheather a certain thinking pattern is true or not, its just in what kind of language and coherence You can express it. In other words, I am a believer myself, but I do believe that a view can be expressed that could change that. Vice versa I am able to express views that could change a believer into an unbeliver. Words are just a simplification of reality and are bullshit in general in my opinion, worth using only then when all parties of a conversation seek truth as the most sacred good.


God is just a word. The existence of a word cannot be questioned, one would have to question the existence of reality in general to do that.
The definition of a word can change over time. The prime meaning of a word should be sought to understand the construct/context in which it was used. Certain words are used only to transmit meaning and are apart from that completely irrelevant. Its like in the story where they talk about catching the rabbit with a snare. As soon as it is cought the snare can be forgotten. Similarly with God - there is a certain meaning to be grasped within each religion once it is cought the verbal construct becomes unnecessary for the user and he will be able to generate the same meaning in his own words.

The problem is that wisdom is so valuable and powerful that its existence is prevented by all power structures. So if somebody manages to build a generator of wisdom with time it turns into a power structure itself and hence becomes a detracktor. It is better to leave the old structures standing so that future generations can understand what has been happening over the spectrum of 2020 years than to build new ones and to go through the same process again. 

The same thing happened to science, in its initial stage it allowed people to group together and generate wisdom. But with time it caused the building of schools that are the greatest generators of ignorance that have ever existed. 

Reformers have to use tools that have already been given by society. If Jesus were to live in a society that is based on different thinking patterns he would have probably conveyed his message in a different way. The question that should be asked is wheather the message should be applied.

The question asked at the beginning could be transfigured into:
"Lets say that tomorrow it will be proven that reality does not exist, meaning will fade"


There is this occurence on the field of language, which causes the meaning of words to change over time. A thousand years ago the word religion meant something completely different than it means today. The strive of religion is to create enthusiam (en theo - means in God = in accord with reality = meaningful existence) Hence the point of religion is to generate behaviours that turn life into a meaningful adventure.


What also has to be added is that the overall level of thinking detoriated dramatically over the last 70 years. This is due to the amount of detracktors that exist in today's society. In the middle ages the amount of time given for thinking and idling was much greater than people have today. This can also be seen by how philosophy is treated. I mean who wants to become a philosopher?


The biggest mistake is when people argue instead of building inside of them. 
The discussion around God and his existence or nonexistence usually don't bear any good fruits. 
It's similiar to wheather I should personify my dog or not. You can call him a name and treat him similarly to a person or You could treat him like a biological machine or object. The same goes for reality its just a matter of choice wheather I chose to personify reality. A choice has consequences, one should just be aware of the implications.

Welcome C-Nemo. Can I interest you in an introduction thread?

Can you tell me which science schools you believe are the greatest generators of ignorance?

How/in what way does religion create meaningful adventure? 

I'm wondering if discussions of your gods existence is only non fruit bearing for you.

(October 24, 2017 at 7:00 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Welcome C-Nemo. Can I interest you in an introduction thread?

Can you tell me which science schools you believe are the greatest generators of ignorance?

How/in what way does religion create meaningful adventure? 

I'm wondering if discussions of your gods existence is only non fruit bearing for you.

I mean the obligatory school system. Putting students who want to study and those who don't into one room.
The idea of specialisation according to which one becomes good at one field of study - is described by Adam Smith (in the Wealth of Nations) as causing a human being to become as stupid as is possible. It's somewhere in the middle of the book.

The problem is that one needs to understand many specialisations to be able to build a view on how they interact with each other.

The adventure is in generating meaning. Even if it is an illusion it does not matter. The same thing goes for a dog, even if each owner knew that the dog only cares for the food and does not give a **** about the owner itself it would not matter. Similarly here. It does not matter what is really real, since we are striving for an emotional occurence. It does not matter why I feel bliss, it is in itself a good enough reason to do something. 


The fruits are usually bad, because we are not being thought the basic tools necessary to use a language. Rhetoric, logic and grammar. People tend to believe that the world is progressing, but in reality it is regressing. Its like the difference between a wasp and an ant. Its the same family at a different stage of evolution. From the perspective of the hive the ant is more evolved, but I myself would prefer to be a wasp. Same here, we might think that we are evolving but humans in the past had a much broader spectrum of abilities than we have today (I mean regarding those of mind)

Thinking about it... I don't think much would change. Religion wouldn't fade even if God is proven false. Proof doesn't matter to most people now, so I don't see why proof would matter to them when there's proof of a definitive answer if it doesn't agree with them.

And now I realize I already said that, just a different way.

(October 26, 2017 at 12:54 am)Captain_Nemo Wrote:

(October 24, 2017 at 7:00 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Welcome C-Nemo. Can I interest you in an introduction thread?

Can you tell me which science schools you believe are the greatest generators of ignorance?

How/in what way does religion create meaningful adventure? 

I'm wondering if discussions of your gods existence is only non fruit bearing for you.

I mean the obligatory school system. Putting students who want to study and those who don't into one room.

---

The idea of specialisation according to which one becomes good at one field of study - is described by Adam Smith (in the Wealth of Nations) as causing a human being to become as stupid as is possible. It's somewhere in the middle of the book.

The problem is that one needs to understand many specialisations to be able to build a view on how they interact with each other.

The adventure is in generating meaning. Even if it is an illusion it does not matter. The same thing goes for a dog, even if each owner knew that the dog only cares for the food and does not give a **** about the owner itself it would not matter. Similarly here. It does not matter what is really real, since we are striving for an emotional occurence. It does not matter why I feel bliss, it is in itself a good enough reason to do something. 


The fruits are usually bad, because we are not being thought the basic tools necessary to use a language. Rhetoric, logic and grammar. People tend to believe that the world is progressing, but in reality it is regressing. Its like the difference between a wasp and an ant. Its the same family at a different stage of evolution. From the perspective of the hive the ant is more evolved, but I myself would prefer to be a wasp. Same here, we might think that we are evolving but humans in the past had a much broader spectrum of abilities than we have today (I mean regarding those of mind)

---

Umm .. we don't generally let little kids decide if they want to be educated or become adults. As the adults, it is our responsibility to give them the preparation they need to become a peer of the realm and able to participate fully. You can't allow young children to decide for themselves whether maturity and knowledge are anything they want to pursue.

(October 26, 2017 at 11:08 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(October 26, 2017 at 12:54 am)Captain_Nemo Wrote: I mean the obligatory school system. Putting students who want to study and those who don't into one room.

---

The idea of specialisation according to which one becomes good at one field of study - is described by Adam Smith (in the Wealth of Nations) as causing a human being to become as stupid as is possible. It's somewhere in the middle of the book.

The problem is that one needs to understand many specialisations to be able to build a view on how they interact with each other.

The adventure is in generating meaning. Even if it is an illusion it does not matter. The same thing goes for a dog, even if each owner knew that the dog only cares for the food and does not give a **** about the owner itself it would not matter. Similarly here. It does not matter what is really real, since we are striving for an emotional occurence. It does not matter why I feel bliss, it is in itself a good enough reason to do something. 


The fruits are usually bad, because we are not being thought the basic tools necessary to use a language. Rhetoric, logic and grammar. People tend to believe that the world is progressing, but in reality it is regressing. Its like the difference between a wasp and an ant. Its the same family at a different stage of evolution. From the perspective of the hive the ant is more evolved, but I myself would prefer to be a wasp. Same here, we might think that we are evolving but humans in the past had a much broader spectrum of abilities than we have today (I mean regarding those of mind)

---

Umm .. we don't generally let little kids decide if they want to be educated or become adults.  As the adults, it is our responsibility to give them the preparation they need to become a peer of the realm and able to participate fully.  You can't allow young children to decide for themselves whether maturity and knowledge are anything they want to pursue.

Teenage liberation handbook:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3057...n_Handbook



The blueprint of our educational system was invented in Prussia to generate soldiers ready to obey orders without critical thinking. Unless You are satisfied with being a mere pawn You should strive for more. School is bad in the sense that it takes time away that could be used in a much better way.

Waiting on the 'wake up sheeple, soylent green is people' battle cry. I'd be curious to know how old you are, because anyone that has entered their late 20s/early 30s can easily remember how much of a stupid fucking idiot they were as a teen/young adult, and remember how they didn't have a handle on anything but still thought they were invincible and the master of their own ship.

There will be problems in any education system anywhere, of course, but implying that adults shouldn't put their kids in some sort of educational structure is ludicrous, and calling anyone who supports this as a 'mere pawn' is insulting and lazy.

(October 14, 2017 at 7:54 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: I think that it wouldn't do anything good! 
Well it is posible to lead the world in chaos but not something good will come out of it .

It is not up to the skeptic to disprove first off.

Secondly, while religion isn't going to go away, if it were not for countless humans in the past questioning social norms, our species never would have left the caves.

I think tons of good have come from questioning old mythology. Women can vote, slavery ended, even today, LGBT have far more rights in America than they did 40 years ago. 

I do however think theists fool themselves thinking that their religion will last forever. History is full of now dead religions. If our species doesn't kill itself off in 10,000 years we should expect to see the current ones still believed, morph into something unrecognizable in the future, and or completely die out, like Roman, Greek and Egyptian mythology.

Fear keeps people in religion, lack of fear of questioning leads humanity to better answers.