I'm gonna do a reverendjeremiah style poll, and see what people think about this.

Whilst watching the news, it was said that some people thought that we should (in the UK) bring back corporal punishment, due to the apparent lack of discipline in UK society after the recent riots.

What are the thoughts about this at AF?
Do you guys think corporal punishment works? Is it necessary?
Please vote in the poll, and if you wish to do so post some reasons why you voted the way you did.

To clarify first though, I want to know people's opinions on corporal punishment in classrooms as a disciplinary device to be used by teachers. Not at home or when used by parents. Maybe that can be done in another thread.

No, because punishments and hitting the children in class are counter-productive for the purpose of teaching them. It's not necessary and it's only going to create more problems, IMO. Also, it could lead them to becoming more hateful against teachers and perhaps even aggressive towards them in the future because children tend to learn behavior from others very easily. They won't even like going to school anymore.

It sets a bad example, that it's okay to use violence against others.

When people say "I was hit as a child and it never did me any harm" I think the fact that they're willing to use violence against someone much weaker and more vulnerable than themselves shows that it actually did do them harm. Obviously not all people who have suffered through physical abuse end up thinking this way though, I suppose it's a kind of Stockholm syndrome.

The idea to bring back corporal punishment in England is a right wing idea that lays the blame entirely on the individuals involved rather than accept societal problems as the root cause.

I spank my kids when they do something life-threatening (or when they have obvious plans to do so). Are kids getting into life-threatening situations in the 3rd grade?

I voted yes because there is a difference between a rap on the knuckles and beating the shit out of someone.

I meant to make this a public poll, any chance a mod or someone can change it?

No teacher ever hit me as hard or as often as my "father" did. So I tended to giggle when getting a spanking in school. Pissed the teachers off no end and failed to modify my behavior at all. I did get arrested for taking the paddle away from a teacher and threatening to turn him into a Popsicle.

(August 15, 2011 at 6:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I voted yes because there is a difference between a rap on the knuckles and beating the shit out of someone.

It's the difference between being spit on and slapped. Both of these cause one to firmly resent the offender.

Violence to someone never does damage to them (though you can bruise and break their platform)... but it does change them.

That you must use pain to maintain control shows you how weak your control is. Were you respected, you would need only ask. And now you will never be trusted, and everything you attempt to teach will be filtered through their dislike of you. To teach with pain sets a precedent: you must then force the rest of the material down their throats to be as effective as before, and they will never want it.

This (obviously?) occurs incrementally with the presentation of the pain, how long it lasts, and how strong it was. For maximum teaching potential: be a completely trusted figure who they not only wish to learn from... but who they will come to for assistance and advice. Anything that disturbs that trust of you must be avoided until the costs are high and permanent.

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(August 16, 2011 at 7:34 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: No teacher ever hit me as hard or as often as my "father" did. So I tended to giggle when getting a spanking in school. Pissed the teachers off no end and failed to modify my behavior at all. I did get arrested for taking the paddle away from a teacher and threatening to turn him into a Popsicle.

You too then? Fascinating.

I went through school when they could no longer hit children... but it remains that every time I was 'detained' or sent home: my parents kept the old rules alive. Needless to say: it was completely ineffective at curbing my behavior, and only led me to a point where I no longer respected any teacher or parent.

Then the parents grew softer as the years went on... and as I said: you must continue along a path of pain once started. I became completely apathetic to their attempts at controlling me, and they lost my trust without doing much to regain it. Rules I 'followed' were because I was myself walking parallel to them.

... Funny now that I find being spanked erotic

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(August 15, 2011 at 5:40 pm)Rayaan Wrote: They won't even like going to school anymore.

I am told that I was quite excited for school at the start of Kindergarten. A few weeks in I am said to have confessed I didn't want to go anymore.

There is a balance somewhere. An abrupt physical touch that shows disapproval, but that does not cause one pain, is often a good attention getter. The follow up to that is an inventive punishment that is irritating and annoying to the child but causes absolutely no physical harm.

It works well for me, but than again, I have very inventive ways to discipline harshly without ever laying a hand of violence on my son.


Furthermore, physical pain goes away quickly and often only leads to feelings of revenge. NOT the desired result.

Consider it as if you were a monarch. You have two choices: to treat your people well and be loved, or to treat your people like scum and be feared.

This 'balance' you speak of is in that middle ground which has not the love of the first nor the fear of the second... control is lost and your government fallen.