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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:49 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 1:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 9, 2017 at 1:40 pm)pool the matey Wrote:
(November 9, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Your "argument" fails at the first premise, and then manages to reach a conclusion that is not only false in it;s own right....it doesn't follow anyway.
Why do you think it fails?:
Quote:Only scientific works or works that claim that they can withstand scientific scrutiny can be subject to scientific scrutiny.
For the basic and fundamental reason that any premise fails. It is not sound. Not only do you have no reason to believe that it's true..it's patently, trivially, and demonstrably false.
Many claims outside of peer reviewed journals are incredibly well suited for and subject to scientific scrutiny. You won't find the notion that arsenic laced jelly beans cure cancer in any peer reviewed journal...but scientific research can certainly tell you both why and that they don't if anyone wants to claim it in their arsenic laced jelly bean advertisements. Similarly, just because magic book isn't a peer reviewed journal doesn't mean it contains no claims that are well suited for and subject to scientific scrutiny.
So that's problem one, isn;t it? You need sound premises for the argument to be true. You do not have sound premises. OFC...assuming you had sound premises...and ignoring that this is not a sound premise..it wouldn't matter. Your conclusion doesn't follow from your unsound premise anyway. You don't even have a -valid- argument.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:49 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 1:17 pm)pool the matey Wrote: Okay, I've been only respectful to people that were respectful to me. I only didn't reply respectfully when that person wasn't respectful to me first. Is it not allowed to respond to disrespectful comments with disrespect?
It depends on whether or not you want to be perceived as the 'better' person and turn the other cheek.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:52 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 1:29 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 8:28 am)Cyberman Wrote: Let me try to put it as simply as I can.
This is me: 
There I am, going about my normal day (for a given value of 'normal'), which for me contains zero gods. You are recommending new element, a new product that will totally change my life, with the miracle ingredient Goddo.
What can you offer me to get me to part with my money?
Higher purpose.
Yeah, well I wasn't hopeful of actual meaningful dialogue. Thanks at least for acknowledging my work anyway.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:52 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 1:49 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 1:40 pm)pool the matey Wrote:
Why do you think it fails?:
For the basic and fundamental reason that any premise fails. It is not sound. Not only do you have no reason to believe that it's true..it's patently, trivially, and demonstrably false.
Many claims outside of peer reviewed journals are incredibly well suited for and subject to scientific scrutiny. You won't find the notion that arsenic laced jelly beans cure cancer in any peer reviewed journal...but scientific research can certainly tell you both why and that they don't if anyone wants to claim it in their arsenic laced jelly bean advertisements. Similarly, just because magic book isn't a peer reviewed journal doesn't mean it contains no claims that are well suited for and subject to scientific scrutiny.
So that's problem one, isn;t it? You need sound premises for the argument to be valid. You do not have sound premises. OFC...assuming you had sound premises...and ignoring that this is not a sound premise..it wouldn't matter. Your conclusion doesn't follow from your unsound premise anyway.
You said that so much better than I did. Damn you; you always do. 😝
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:53 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 1:56 pm by I_am_not_mafia.)
(November 9, 2017 at 1:17 pm)pool the matey Wrote: LastPoet Wrote:You are not here to make that determination, nor you will ever be.
Also you created a thread, but it is not yours. Any member can reply to it. You do not get to tell people to fuck off, specially if they replied to you within the forum rules.
You have done this several times in this thread.
Okay, I've been only respectful to people that were respectful to me. I only didn't reply respectfully when that person wasn't respectful to me first. Is it not allowed to respond to disrespectful comments with disrespect?
But you were derailing your own thread by changing the subject to one where have to yet again explain the theory of evolution by natursl selection. You don't think it woukdnt hzvd led to a long debate about irreducible complexity, kinrs, micro vsmacro evolution etc?
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm by Harry Nevis.)
(November 9, 2017 at 10:50 am)pool the matey Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 10:49 am)Mathilda Wrote: So you're happy with the statement that if something is a religious work then it is a work of fiction. Glad we've cleared that up.
Works of fiction and religious works are COMPLETELY different.
nm
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 1:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 9, 2017 at 1:52 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: You said that so much better than I did. Damn you; you always do. 😝
I have -alot- of practice. 
Hell, I even have alot of practice dealing specifically with Pool.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:00 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 12:04 pm)pool the matey Wrote: Aroura Wrote:Shifting the burden of proof is still a logical fallacy.
Again with your trolling. I was having that conversation with FAF, I know "shifting the burden of proof" is a fallacy. Obviously you removed all context and just fixated on just that. Look, what I meant was instead of me giving evidence for a God, I asked them to give evidence for why Bible is a scientific text, that's the context in which I said "shifting the burden of proof",not literally shifting the burden of proof.
How is pointing out a fallacy trolling? Plus, you are indeed shifting the burden of proof. I quoted your whole paragraph, I removed zero context.
This is a conversation, too.
No one is claiming the bible is a scientific text. That's your strawman.
You don't get to dictate how people respond to you in your thread. Though you are free to stop responding to whomever you like, including me.
Calling arguments you disagree with trolling is just.....gah. Cheap. That's it. It's cheap. If you cannot win, you just dismiss thingsthe person. Fine. I've been dismissed.
/salute
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:01 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 2:03 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
Khemikal Wrote:For the basic and fundamental reason that any premise fails. It is not sound.
Well then prove it. Name one situation where subjecting something that doesn't claim it is a scientific work or doesn't claim that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny is acceptable?
Khemikal Wrote:You won't find the notion that arsenic laced jelly beans cure cancer in any peer reviewed journal...but scientific research can certainly tell you both why and that they don't.
That's a bad analogy because unless someone makes a scientific claim that arsenic laced jelly beans cure cancer and claims that their claim can withstand scientific scrutiny nobody will even bother to do a scientific research to show that they are wrong. If on the flip side some group of researchers just decided to create evidence for why "arsenic laced jelly beans cure cancer" is wrong without anyone ever making such a claim it would be meaningless. Likewise, nowhere in the Bible it claims it is a scientific work or that it can withstand scientific scrutiny so it's a claim that they haven't made, if a group of people decided to show that Bible isn't scientifically correct then it just doesn't make any sense because that claim was not made in the first place.
Cyberman Wrote:It depends on whether or not you want to be perceived as the 'better' person and turn the other cheek.
No thanks, I don't want to be perceived as a better person. I'll respond to disrespect with disrespect and respect with respect.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:05 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I claim that pool the matey is a dumbass. Since it's not a scientific claim, I don't have to provide evidence that it's true. It just is true. STOP STRAWMANNING ME!!1!
Well, he DOES claim to be a former atheist, so maybe we should be easier on him. It may have been a brain injury or something that made him convert and now to spout nonsense.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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