Take away physical punishment and you get more of the other kinds of punishment to compensate. Lack of discipline isn't due to lack of physical punishment, but lack of effective correction. Bullying of any kind is ultimately counter productive.. something gives somewhere.. and I don't fancy living in a world of repressed bullies acting out in secret.

I have not ( yet ) voted on this issue, because I have always been against the idea of corporal punishment because it was always open to abuse by sadistic or sexually perverted teachers, priests, nuns and the like.
However, the UK has just witnessed the worst rioting for a very long time and I am sickened by what happened, with gangs of young thugs smashing up businesses, in their own communities and showing no remorse whatsoever.
Buildings and businesses have been destroyed and even worse, SO HAVE LIVES of those standing up to the rioters.

As far as I am concerned, moreover, there was no politics involved in these riots. It was criminality on a big scale.

The best article I read about the riots came to the conclusion that the UK has produced a generation " good for nothing yet afraid of nothing ".
I say that not all, but many of this generation fit that bill, particularly the not being afraid . This may well be as a result of corporal punishment having been abolished in schools and at home.
I would probably now not holler in anger if it was restored ( as part of a bigger strategy to bring some respect back onto the agenda ).

I'm not voting so here just yet though...I'll study the thread.

(August 16, 2011 at 2:56 pm)bozo Wrote: As far as I am concerned, moreover, there was no politics involved in these riots. It was criminality on a big scale.

The actions may not have been politically motivated but the causes most definitely are.

(August 16, 2011 at 3:15 pm)Skeptic Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 2:56 pm)bozo Wrote: As far as I am concerned, moreover, there was no politics involved in these riots. It was criminality on a big scale.

The actions may not have been politically motivated but the causes most definitely are.

The apologists for the actions have made the case for possible causes. I do not care for the way our society is and would have it changed, but criminality such as we have witnessed is not the way forward and gangs of swaggering hoodies and opportunist robbers are not my idea of political activists.

(August 16, 2011 at 3:41 pm)bozo Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 3:15 pm)Skeptic Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 2:56 pm)bozo Wrote: As far as I am concerned, moreover, there was no politics involved in these riots. It was criminality on a big scale.

The actions may not have been politically motivated but the causes most definitely are.

The apologists for the actions have made the case for possible causes. I do not care for the way our society is and would have it changed, but criminality such as we have witnessed is not the way forward and gangs of swaggering hoodies and opportunist robbers are not my idea of political activists.

Not sure we're on the same lines here. I'm saying that the reason people have turned out like this is due to politics not that the rioting/robbing is political.

(August 16, 2011 at 1:46 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Take away physical punishment and you get more of the other kinds of punishment to compensate.

Yeah, like when teachers add more to their homework or gives them a zero for an exam. They can't hit the students and that's why they use an alternative way of punishing them.

(August 16, 2011 at 2:56 pm)bozo Wrote: I say that not all, but many of this generation fit that bill, particularly the not being afraid . This may well be as a result of corporal punishment having been abolished in schools and at home.

I don't chalk it down to the lack of corporal punishment. I chalk it down to the lack of ANY punishment. The parents of these scum bags were the ones encouraging them to go out stealing plasma TV's, the mindset of these people wouldn't necessarily change just because CP was legal.

(August 16, 2011 at 3:53 pm)Skeptic Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 3:41 pm)bozo Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 3:15 pm)Skeptic Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 2:56 pm)bozo Wrote: As far as I am concerned, moreover, there was no politics involved in these riots. It was criminality on a big scale.

The actions may not have been politically motivated but the causes most definitely are.

The apologists for the actions have made the case for possible causes. I do not care for the way our society is and would have it changed, but criminality such as we have witnessed is not the way forward and gangs of swaggering hoodies and opportunist robbers are not my idea of political activists.

Not sure we're on the same lines here. I'm saying that the reason people have turned out like this is due to politics not that the rioting/robbing is political.

Not all people have turned out like the rioters despite the politics. It also appears from the ones going through the courts that they don't all have the same profile, but they do share a fondness for criminality.

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(August 16, 2011 at 4:00 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(August 16, 2011 at 2:56 pm)bozo Wrote: I say that not all, but many of this generation fit that bill, particularly the not being afraid . This may well be as a result of corporal punishment having been abolished in schools and at home.

I don't chalk it down to the lack of corporal punishment. I chalk it down to the lack of ANY punishment. The parents of these scum bags were the ones encouraging them to go out stealing plasma TV's, the mindset of these people wouldn't necessarily change just because CP was legal.

I don't think you can claim ALL the parents of the rioters encouraged it...some parents have turned the kids in to the police.
But, yes, I think poor parenting is a problem, as is the lack of discipline in schools.
Who in their right mind would choose teaching as a career nowadays?

(August 16, 2011 at 4:10 pm)bozo Wrote: I don't think you can claim ALL the parents of the rioters encouraged it...some parents have turned the kids in to the police.

Yeah I agree and that's great, but maybe if their parents knew where the fuck they were in the first place they wouldn't be having to turn them in.

For whatever reason many parents can't control their children nowadays.

(August 16, 2011 at 1:21 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Consider it as if you were a monarch. You have two choices: to treat your people well and be loved, or to treat your people like scum and be feared.

First of all we're not talking about a monarch and a country, we're talking about the common misbehavior of a child. Secondly, saying that a monarch has to choose between only those two arbitrary choices during their rule is your own delusional fantasy. Catherine the Great was beloved, but she was known to be strong and disciplined in her reign. Regardless, the actions of an entire country's population regarding their ruler has NOTHING to do with the daily light discipline of a child. Apples and oranges.

Quote:This 'balance' you speak of is in that middle ground which has not the love of the first nor the fear of the second... control is lost and your government fallen.

Utterly ridiculous and your conclusion is a non-sequitur. Balance is essential to survival to everything on this planet. It's everywhere, and anywhere the world is out of balance - chaos follows. Balance of power, balance in the environment, balance in economics, balance of government .... essential to survival and essential to good discipline.

Your statement is simply incorrect. EPIC =